A poll on the specificity of laws from God

[Muffled]

I'm a secularist in that I don't believe a nation should recognise/enforce any religious laws. That's up to people of individual religions to impose as they see fit on their own followers as long as none of their activities breaks any of that nation's laws.

I believe Christians are under the Law of Christ before any other laws. I believe a nation can make laws contrary to God's will but it does so at its own risk.

 

[Muffled]

To me there is only one universal law and that is the law of love. People should do their best to be loving/compassionate. And nothing else truly matters.

I believe that gets defined differently. The Christian believes love is getting people to leave their sin but sinners do not see it that way.

 

[Remté]

Gods Laws are suited for the age they are given, not meant for but one race or country.

Each Messenger of God brings the New Heaven and New Earth, each Mesaage gives the Laws for that age.

Regards Tony

There are no more messangers though.

 

[Remté]

What kind of Sharia law?

That poll is confusing so I said other. But mainly because - what kind of Sharia law?

 

[Rival]

I believe the command to have no other god before Him is intended for everyone. He is God over all is He not?

This is part of the Noahide code.

 

[Nakosis]

I believe Christians are under the Law of Christ before any other laws. I believe a nation can make laws contrary to God's will but it does so at its own risk.

That's fine, I have no personal problem with this though a religion can have laws contrary to the laws of the land but it does so at it's own risk.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There are no more messangers though.

That is a view I personally do not hold to and I do not see the Quran intended us to think that was so.

I see Muhammad (peace be upon Him) as the seal of prophecy. The age of fulfillment was to come and was promised by Allah.

Thus Allah's hands are not chained or tied by what man has decided is the way Allah sends His Messengers.

Thus I see the fulfillment of the Day of God has been given by Allah and the Laws for this day have been given by Allah's Messenger, the 'Glory of God'.

Regards Tony

 

[Muffled]

What kind of Sharia law?

That poll is confusing so I said other. But mainly because - what kind of Sharia law?

The way I have heard Muslims talk it sounded like their was only one but i believe there is no doubt the Taliban have a different Sharia from anyone.

I believe that is the problem with written laws. They can be misinterpreted and misunderstood.

 

[Muffled]

This is part of the Noahide code.

I believe that is only a small portion of the laws listed in Deuteronomy. So does that mean one may pick and choose the laws he likes and forget the others?

 

[Muffled]

That's fine, I have no personal problem with this though a religion can have laws contrary to the laws of the land but it does so at it's own risk.

I believe that has happened in the Bible. Some political enemies of Daniel got a law passed that a person could only pray to the king but Daniel prayed to God anyway so he had to go into the lions den.

 

[Rival]

I believe that is only a small portion of the laws listed in Deuteronomy. So does that mean one may pick and choose the laws he likes and forget the others?

You are unfamiliar with the Noachide code, I think.

 

[Remté]

The way I have heard Muslims talk it sounded like their was only one but i believe there is no doubt the Taliban have a different Sharia from anyone.

I believe that is the problem with written laws. They can be misinterpreted and misunderstood.

You mean the countries after writing their laws misunderstand them? The word Sharia law is thrown about a lot without specifying what kind of Sharia law. It is a varying concept.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The 613 laws of the Torah were given by God through Moses to who? The People of Israel. Not the world. There is no need for a Gentile sitting in Pizza Hut to feel guilty about chowing down on a pepperoni pizza or mowing his lawn on a Saturday.

This doesn't mean there aren't universal laws. Things like, Don't murder, Don't steal, Don't commit adultery... These kinds of laws apply to everyone.

The universal laws are a subset of the 613, since obviously Jews were given the universal laws as well as the laws specific to us.

 

[RESOLUTION]

I hear Muslims say that Sharia is for everyone and Jews say the Mosaic law is just for them. Certainly there must be a debate there somewhere.

Is there a debate?

The two are not mutually compatible when debating Sharia Law and Mosaic Law.

Jesus upheld the Mosaic Law he also summed the Whole of the Mosaic Law and teachings of the Prophets into two commandments:-

1. Love God with all your heart , mind, body, soul and strength.

2. Love your neighbour as you love yourself.

The Mosaic Law is the founder of the covenant with the descendants of Abraham and Isaac. The Son of the Covenant with Abraham and the Covenant of the Messiah the Christ bringing Jews and Gentiles together.

The Sharia Law has no place in the world as under the rule of Yahweh. It is Jew or Gentile, if not a Jew whether a Christian Jew added into the branches then as far as religion is concerned there is no place for the rest. If Christ is the Son of God the last covenant has already been established as the Kingdom of God. King James Bible
Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
Given that God has made it plain and showed by Christ and the OT Prophets that it is by the Spirit and not the Law that people belong to him and live. How will you debate the ethics of truth used by Christ when he taught:-
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. King David was baptised with the Holy Spirit. The disciples were the same.

Law is about doing the right thing. Spirit and truth is about the way of living it. Can we really debate outside the definition of the Laws in all cases?

 

[Muffled]

You are unfamiliar with the Noachide code, I think.

I believe you are quite correct.

 

[Muffled]

You mean the countries after writing their laws misunderstand them? The word Sharia law is thrown about a lot without specifying what kind of Sharia law. It is a varying concept.

I believe countries are not writing Sharia laws but are deriving them from the Qu'ran and Hadiths. Some accept the Hadiths as valid and others do not.

 

[Muffled]

Is there a debate?

The two are not mutually compatible when debating Sharia Law and Mosaic Law.

Jesus upheld the Mosaic Law he also summed the Whole of the Mosaic Law and teachings of the Prophets into two commandments:-

1. Love God with all your heart , mind, body, soul and strength.

2. Love your neighbour as you love yourself.

The Mosaic Law is the founder of the covenant with the descendants of Abraham and Isaac. The Son of the Covenant with Abraham and the Covenant of the Messiah the Christ bringing Jews and Gentiles together.

The Sharia Law has no place in the world as under the rule of Yahweh. It is Jew or Gentile, if not a Jew whether a Christian Jew added into the branches then as far as religion is concerned there is no place for the rest. If Christ is the Son of God the last covenant has already been established as the Kingdom of God. King James Bible
Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
Given that God has made it plain and showed by Christ and the OT Prophets that it is by the Spirit and not the Law that people belong to him and live. How will you debate the ethics of truth used by Christ when he taught:-
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. King David was baptised with the Holy Spirit. The disciples were the same.

Law is about doing the right thing. Spirit and truth is about the way of living it. Can we really debate outside the definition of the Laws in all cases?

Lets talk about a specific law. The law that forbids homosexuality. Both Mosaic and Sharia law have that injunction. However because Christians are not under Mosaic law they must go by what the Holy Spirit teaches them. I believe the Holy Spirit is teaching that the injunction is correct.

I believe on the other hand both Mosaic law and Sharia law say one may not eat pork but Jesus says otherwise. The Holy Spirit affirms what Jesus said.

The bottom line is that those who have Mosaic law or Sharia law are stuck in a cultural bondage because those laws can't change but Christians have a dynamic law that is pertinent to our lives today.

 

[RESOLUTION]

Lets talk about a specific law. The law that forbids homosexuality. Both Mosaic and Sharia law have that injunction. However because Christians are not under Mosaic law they must go by what the Holy Spirit teaches them. I believe the Holy Spirit is teaching that the injunction is correct.

I think this is a dog chasing his tale. The Bible deals with truth. The Old Covenant was that between God and the Israelites. He clearly told us through Jeremiah 31:31-34. The last covenant would not be like the former that his people would live by truth and Spirit in the New Covenant. Obeying the law in full also brought the baptism of the Holy Spirit and we witnessed that with Saul and also with David. But this way through Christ is a perfect way and no sacrifices on the high altar by a priest is necessary.
So Gods word is about people living in the presence and power of God. What is clear in religion is what the bible says is a sin, is a sin.
But people have the choice to live in sin. The bible makes it clear that sin is sin and any of those sins lead to being guilty. Judgment of the gentiles is Gods not mans. In this life especially.

I believe on the other hand both Mosaic law and Sharia law say one may not eat pork but Jesus says otherwise. The Holy Spirit affirms what Jesus said.

Why did God forbid the eating of Pork? Unclean animals maybe? What happened is Christ taught what goes into a man by his mouth does not make him unclean but what comes out of his mouth for that comes from heart of the person where their sin comes from. Gods law goes to the good and help of man not his destruction.

The bottom line is that those who have Mosaic law or Sharia law are stuck in a cultural bondage because those laws can't change but Christians have a dynamic law that is pertinent to our lives today.

To be honest there is no covenant with God in Sharia Law . The Mosaic Law is from a covenant the people of God have with him. The Christians are under a new Covenant one which is different to all the other covenants because it includes Jews and Gentiles. There is none outside those covenants and we know the truth sets free in the Covenant of Christ. The books teach these things.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I found something in plain English:

The Seven Noahide Laws

Yeah, so basically the 10 commandments.

Yeah people love to wave with the 10 commandments.
But there are actually 613 of them.
Some of them so yucky that it's obvious why nobody is waving with them.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I believe Christians are under the Law of Christ before any other laws. I believe a nation can make laws contrary to God's will but it does so at its own risk.

Why?
Is God going to send angels to bomb those nations with fire and brimstone?