A question for creationists

[URAVIP2ME]

First you will state in print that if I note a single error or contradiction you will concede the point. Im not going to go through the effort only to waste my time. Im not here for apologetics.
Sometimes its context or setting, and sometimes the text is outright wrong. In a number of places the bible is wrong.
Also, first, you must make your judgment on the statement: if a work is divine it will contain no contradictions or errors. Yes or no?

Where is the error or contradiction?
Just like other books the Bible has a theme.
Jesus teaching has the same theme.
There is no error or contradiction in what the Bible really teaches.

 

[camanintx]

Where is the error or contradiction?
Just like other books the Bible has a theme.
Jesus teaching has the same theme.
There is no error or contradiction in what the Bible really teaches.

Get ready for the "no true Scotsman" defense.

 

[riley2112]

Where is the error or contradiction?
Just like other books the Bible has a theme.
Jesus teaching has the same theme.
There is no error or contradiction in what the Bible really teaches.

I truly believe in God , but no error or contradiction in the Bible? Have you read it? I mean , it could confuse any body. And some of the things in it are terrible all from a loving God. Don't you think that maybe man may have , well , added a few things?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I truly believe in God , but no error or contradiction in the Bible? Have you read it? I mean , it could confuse any body. And some of the things in it are terrible all from a loving God. Don't you think that maybe man may have , well , added a few things?

'terrible' or seem terrible because of not knowing the whole picture ?

The Flood was a calamity by God and so was Sodom and Gomorrah, but that does not mean that God did not have a righteous reason for that destruction.

The words from Jesus mouth will destroy the wicked at Armageddon,
but does that mean terrible from a loving God, or rather a necessary because a peaceful earth can't exist with evildoers on it ?

Remember: before destruction there is warning. -Ezekiel 3vs18-21
Even Noah was a warning preacher according to 2nd Peter 2v5.
Warning by presenting a pointed warning message declaring God's resolve to bring ruin to the ungodly.

Revelation [11v18 B] assures God will bring to ruin those ruining the earth.

Once the wicked are gone [Psalm 92v7] who remains to inherit the earth?
-Proverbs 2vs21,22, 10v30; 21v18; Psalm 37vs11,29,38-40

 

[riley2112]

'terrible' or seem terrible because of not knowing the whole picture ?

The Flood was a calamity by God and so was Sodom and Gomorrah, but that does not mean that God did not have a righteous reason for that destruction.

The words from Jesus mouth will destroy the wicked at Armageddon,
but does that mean terrible from a loving God, or rather a necessary because a peaceful earth can't exist with evildoers on it ?

Remember: before destruction there is warning. -Ezekiel 3vs18-21
Even Noah was a warning preacher according to 2nd Peter 2v5.
Warning by presenting a pointed warning message declaring God's resolve to bring ruin to the ungodly.

Revelation [11v18 B] assures God will bring to ruin those ruining the earth.

Once the wicked are gone [Psalm 92v7] who remains to inherit the earth?
-Proverbs 2vs21,22, 10v30; 21v18; Psalm 37vs11,29,38-40

But he killed the whole planet , women, men, and children, I have a problem with that, don't you , I just find it hard to understand or believe that a God that loved us enough to come down here and die on a cross for us would kill all of the life on the planet , sparing a few.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Where is the error or contradiction?
Just like other books the Bible has a theme.
Jesus teaching has the same theme.
There is no error or contradiction in what the Bible really teaches.

So, you're not stating in print what the stakes are, and thus, are chickening out?

I knew you would.

The Bible is full of errors and is not divine.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Get ready for the "no true Scotsman" defense.

Oh, no worries, I knew it was coming, along with all the other stereotypical apologies for blatant errors I've done this before. That's why I asked beforehand if he would concede when an error was shown, because the inevitable Christian Question Ladder was coming somewhere next, too.

 

[Tiberius]

For starters, take Star Trek chapter one and post the corresponding verses for that chapter.

With Genesis 1v1
'in the beginning' corresponds to Hebrews 1v10
'God' corresponds to Exodus 6v3; 33v20; Deut 6v4; Mark 10v18; John 4v24; Romans 1v20; 1Cor 8v4; 1 Tim 1v11l 1 Tim 2v5; Hebrews 9v24; 1st John 4v16; Rev 4v8.
'created' corresponds to Psalm 148v5; Isaiah 45v18; Rev 4v11
'the heavens and the earth' corresponds to Job 38v4; Psalm 102v25; Isaiah 42v5; Rev 10v6.

Well, The Star trek: The Next Generation episode "Relics", written by Ronald Moore mentions things from the Original Series episodes "The Naked Time", "Wolf in the Fold" and "Elaan of Troyius", none of which Ronald Moore was involved in producing.

There is also the Star Trek: Voyager episode "Before and After" which prophesies events that would later occur in the Voyager episodes "Year of Hell part 1" and "Year of Hell part 2".

And the Original Series episode "Assignment Earth" correctly prophesied that the first manned lunar mission would be launched on a wednesday.

That is three examples of things that correspond, including one that was outside of Star Trek entirely. How can you argue with that?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Booyah!

 

[riley2112]

Let me ask this, is the Bible the true word of God? Is it to be taken as fact? And if not how do we tell what is just stories to make a point and what is fact?

 

[Tiberius]

And if I may add a question...

If the Bible is the true word of God, how do we know?

 

[rusra02]

If an eternally existing God is a reasonable possibility, why isn't eternally existing energy in a naturalistic universe also a reasonble possibility?

Even if this universe had a beginning, there is not any credible evidence that no energy existed prior to the beginning of the universe.

Since I am an agnostic, I am not necessarily promoting naturalism, or theism.

By "eternally existing energy in a naturalistic universe" I assume you mean undirected energy without intelligence. Undirected energy is destructive, not constructive. The universe displays intelligence, design, planning, order as does the earth and life upon it. Intelligence does not exist apart from a person or other living entity (animals have some intelligence.)
Physicist John Polkinghome wrote: "When you realize that the laws of nature must be incredibly finely tuned to produce the universe we see, that conspires to plant the idea that the universe did not just happen, but that there must be a purpose behind it." To which I add, and a Great Purposer.

 

[camanintx]

By "eternally existing energy in a naturalistic universe" I assume you mean undirected energy without intelligence. Undirected energy is destructive, not constructive. The universe displays intelligence, design, planning, order as does the earth and life upon it. Intelligence does not exist apart from a person or other living entity (animals have some intelligence.)

And yet undirected energy coupled with natural laws is capable of creating incredibly complex systems.

Physicist John Polkinghome wrote: "When you realize that the laws of nature must be incredibly finely tuned to produce the universe we see, that conspires to plant the idea that the universe did not just happen, but that there must be a purpose behind it." To which I add, and a Great Purposer.

I am not surprised that an Anglican priest feels this way. Does Mr. Polkinghome explain how natural laws came to be and what possible range of values they could have taken on?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And if I may add a question...
If the Bible is the true word of God, how do we know?

Jesus knew or believed the Scriptures are the true word of God because
Jesus based his beliefs and teachings on Scripture as religious truth. [John 17v17]
Jesus used logical reasoning on Scriptures as the basis for his teachings.

 

[Tiberius]

Jesus knew or believed the Scriptures are the true word of God because
Jesus based his beliefs and teachings on Scripture as religious truth. [John 17v17]
Jesus used logical reasoning on Scriptures as the basis for his teachings.

If the records about him are accurate. How have you verified the accuracy of the gospels?

 

[rusra02]

And yet undirected energy coupled with natural laws is capable of creating incredibly complex systems.


I am not surprised that an Anglican priest feels this way. Does Mr. Polkinghome explain how natural laws came to be and what possible range of values they could have taken on?

You speak of 'natural laws.' But where does law come from? Can there be laws without a lawgiver? These 'natural laws' are, in fact, evidence of a great Lawgiver who set these laws into operation and continues to enforce these laws. (Jeremiah 33:25)

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You speak of 'natural laws.' But where does law come from? Can there be laws without a lawgiver? These 'natural laws' are, in fact, evidence of a great Lawgiver who set these laws into operation and continues to enforce these laws. (Jeremiah 33:25)

Just because we use the same word doesn't mean it works the same way. We currently have no explanation for the origin of the laws that govern the universe (that I'm aware of), but saying "magic man done it" doesn't answer the question - it just creates more.

 

[rusra02]

Just because we use the same word doesn't mean it works the same way. We currently have no explanation for the origin of the laws that govern the universe (that I'm aware of), but saying "magic man done it" doesn't answer the question - it just creates more.

You have no explanation that pleases you, but the logical and correct explanation is that laws demand a lawgiver. Universal laws demand a universal Lawgiver. It is not magic. It is a clear statement of fact that "God created the heavens and the earth."
(Genesis 1:1)

 

[riley2112]

Jesus knew or believed the Scriptures are the true word of God because
Jesus based his beliefs and teachings on Scripture as religious truth. [John 17v17]
Jesus used logical reasoning on Scriptures as the basis for his teachings.

Here is my problem with that, ( Jesus based his beliefs on scripture.) How do you know this? (because the Bible told me so) How do you know it is the word of God,(because Jesus told Me so) How did he tell you? ( In the Bible) Do you see the problem with that? ( I believe in the bible because the bible tells me to)

 

[riley2112]

Just because we use the same word doesn't mean it works the same way. We currently have no explanation for the origin of the laws that govern the universe (that I'm aware of), but saying "magic man done it" doesn't answer the question - it just creates more.

Every thing that explains anything more than likely will bring up more questions. The universe is govered by laws that were designed in to place. I hate to bring up an old ideal, however , The watchmaker analogy, or watchmaker argument, is a teleological argument for the existence of God. By way of an analogy, the argument states that design implies a designer. William Paley had a very good thought here.