A Question for fellow Christians.

[Jeremy Mason]

The fact that God knows us as perfectly as He does and therefore being able to know what kinds of choices we'll make when presented with a certain set of circumstances is not the same thing as Him having chosen to save some and damn others before they were ever born.

I'm a little confused. If God can "know what kinds of choices we'll make with a certain set of circumstances..." then why can't God judge us on those choices? The fact that he is able to see the future doesn't mean he has already decided who makes it or not. Jesus would not have asked people to repent if he felt that there was no chance of us changing.

 

[Katzpur]

I'm a little confused. If God can "know what kinds of choices we'll make with a certain set of circumstances..." then why can't God judge us on those choices? The fact that he is able to see the future doesn't mean he has already decided who makes it or not. Jesus would not have asked people to repent if he felt that there was no chance of us changing.

I agree. I wasn't sure that's what you were saying.

 

[Troublemane]

Everyone has heard of Jesus....
Faith in Jesus is the only way to be saved, there is no other way.

Define faith.

Also, explain how "everyone" has heard of Jesus?--I know that of the 20 or so pagan christs before jesus, sure, most of the world already had heard of one form of the solar/ressurecting deity (aka, mithras,dionysus,horus, etc.)---is that to which you refer? Also,how can there have been people who'd heard of Jesus before there was a Jesus? What if you died with only a partial belief in Jesus, are you half saved?

 

[Katzpur]

Also, explain how "everyone" has heard of Jesus?

Good luck getting an answer to that question. I finally gave up myself. If you get an answer at all, it will be along the lines of the one I got. You don't have to have heard of Jesus in order to have faith in Him, and everyone has had the opportunity to have faith in Him. Makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Ratiocinative]

Define faith.

Faith is confidence or trust in someone or something. In a Biblical context of being saved it means trusting that God's promise of forgiveness of sins has been fulfilled through Christ Jesus, and that God will not break his promise to save those who believe in Christ. An example of not having faith would be trying to earn salvation through your own actions, such as baptism or circumcision.

Also, explain how "everyone" has heard of Jesus?--I know that of the 20 or so pagan christs before jesus, sure, most of the world already had heard of one form of the solar/ressurecting deity (aka, mithras,dionysus,horus, etc.)---is that to which you refer? Also,how can there have been people who'd heard of Jesus before there was a Jesus? What if you died with only a partial belief in Jesus, are you half saved?

As the Bible says in Romans 1/10/Psalms 19, people have always known about God because creation display his power. In Romans 1 the Bible says that God has made himself known to people instinctively, and that there is no excuse for not knowing God. However, instead of believing this truth that was made known to them, the Bible says that people deliberately choose to believe lies to satisfy their own evil desires. People always have the opportunity to turn from their sin and learn the truth about God, and his promise of salvation through Christ, but instead they make up their own ideas and follow them. Those who do these things have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[Starfish]

I believe that God would not condemn someone if the said person never had a chance to know Him. Unfortunately, not a lot of Christians agree with me.

Oh I agree completely with you, Christine. What kind of God would do that?

 

[mudge991]

Faith is confidence or trust in someone or something. In a Biblical context of being saved it means trusting that God's promise of forgiveness of sins has been fulfilled through Christ Jesus, and that God will not break his promise to save those who believe in Christ. An example of not having faith would be trying to earn salvation through your own actions, such as baptism or circumcision.



As the Bible says in Romans 1/10/Psalms 19, people have always known about God because creation display his power. In Romans 1 the Bible says that God has made himself known to people instinctively, and that there is no excuse for not knowing God. However, instead of believing this truth that was made known to them, the Bible says that people deliberately choose to believe lies to satisfy their own evil desires. People always have the opportunity to turn from their sin and learn the truth about God, and his promise of salvation through Christ, but instead they make up their own ideas and follow them. Those who do these things have no one to blame but themselves.

If it's "known to people instinctively" then why ask for money to "spread the word"? Are you actually stating that you are taking this literally? Do you think that what you are reading is the "infallable" word of god? I would be interested to know if you believe this.

 

[Katzpur]

If it's "known to people instinctively" then why ask for money to "spread the word"? Are you actually stating that you are taking this literally? Do you think that what you are reading is the "infallable" word of god? I would be interested to know if you believe this.

Since when was "Pastafarianism" a denomination of Christianity? You need to read the forum rules, buddy.

 

[mudge991]

Since when was "Pastafarianism" a denomination of Christianity? You need to read the forum rules, buddy.

Are you telling me that yours is the only denomination allowed? How very Christian of you. But good answer, you addressed the post quite well.:sarcastic

And what makes you think any Christian would include Mormons in the denominational group? Even your "prophet" said so...

Historically, only until recently have Mormons wanted to be called Christians, preferring not to be included with Christian denominations, which Joseph Smith said were, "all wrong ... all their creeds were an admonition in his sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt" (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, 2:18-19).

Note the following quote from the Mormon Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, page 123, made by the LDS Apostle Orson Hyde:
"Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, a mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point were He is."
Lorenzo Snow, late President of the Mormon church, made this statement in the second verse of his famous poem entitled, "Man's Destiny":
"As Abra'm, Isaac, Jacob, too, babes, then men--to gods they grew. As man now is, our God once was; As now God is, so man may be,-- Which doth unfold man's destiny. . ."
The God of the Bible is not an exalted man. The God of the Bible is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. The Bible says He is the only God and there are no other Gods. He had no beginning or end and he is a spirit being and never was a man.

whups....lol

 

[Katzpur]

Are you telling me that yours is the only denomination allowed?

Absolutely not. I'm telling you that this thread is in the Same Faith Debates forum and that only Christians are supposed to be posting here. But since you obviously either haven't read the forum rules or figure you're exempt from following them, I'll just say it one more time: Butt out. You're not wanted here.

How very Christian of you.

Any time. I'm just getting warmed up.

And what makes you think any Christian would include Mormons in the denominational group? Even your "prophet" said so...

As long as you're posting on RF, that's entirely beside the point. Mormons are considered to be a Christian denomination on this forum, whether you happen to like it or not.

Everything else you have said is off-topic and deserves no reply from me or anybody else.

 

[ChristineES]

There are other denominations who consider Mormons Christians. They do, after all, follow the teachings of Jesus.

 

[Melancholy]

There are other denominations who consider Mormons Christians. They do, after all, follow the teachings of Jesus.

I heartily agree:yes:

 

[Starfish]

There are other denominations who consider Mormons Christians. They do, after all, follow the teachings of Jesus.

Wow. Thanks for your kind words.

 

[thorman]

Since I'm new here I'm just going to go back to the original question and forgive me if I restate someone else's views. How are people saved or to make it easier for me to answer how am I saved? I am saved the same way the Philippian jailor was saved- believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. What does that entail? My life both on earth and in eternity. Does God call some to be saved and some to be condemned? yes. Paul states that "for whom He did foreknow He also did predestine." Does this cancel out free will? I don't know? In one of his books C.S. Lewis described the universe as a beautifully intricate dance with every creation assigned its place by the conductor. I ask this question to every one of my pastors/teachers and I'm happiest when they admit to me that they honestly don't know.

 

[Starfish]

What does being "saved" mean? Many of us have different answers. That's where a lot of confusion happens. To me it means resurrection--a free gift, from Christ, to everyone.

To some it means reaching heaven. Again, more confusion, because I believe in different heavens. (I don't believe in the pass/fail grading system.) I believe all good (and that includes most) people will go to a heaven.

It never ceases to amaze me that anyone would believe that a loving God would send anyone to hell who, in spite of living as best they know how, would be damned to hell because they never heard of Christ. Or were misinformed and worshipped the "wrong" Christ.

God is our father and he loves us. He will be just in his judgement and he knows what's in our hearts. He also wants each of us to know the truth. If we keep asking for truth, he will send it, and with the help of the Holy Ghost, we can have the power to recognize it when it comes.

As long as we keep seeking truth, and then living it as we gain it, we'll be okay.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

What does being "saved" mean? Many of us have different answers. That's where a lot of confusion happens. To me it means resurrection--a free gift, from Christ, to everyone.

To some it means reaching heaven. Again, more confusion, because I believe in different heavens. (I don't believe in the pass/fail grading system.) I believe all good (and that includes most) people will go to a heaven.

It never ceases to amaze me that anyone would believe that a loving God would send anyone to hell who, in spite of living as best they know how, would be damned to hell because they never heard of Christ. Or were misinformed and worshipped the "wrong" Christ.

God is our father and he loves us. He will be just in his judgement and he knows what's in our hearts. He also wants each of us to know the truth. If we keep asking for truth, he will send it, and with the help of the Holy Ghost, we can have the power to recognize it when it comes.

As long as we keep seeking truth, and then living it as we gain it, we'll be okay.

The idea that God will send people to Hell is upsetting to say the least and I struggle with the issue too. However, we may very well not have a choice about the matter. The question I asked myself is what can do to help the situation. God has give everybody the chance to be a decent person weather you heard of Jesus or not. God gave us commonsense. Some people listen to it, some don't. We'll be judged according to the light we are given. It's up to us to spread the good news of salvation so that others can do the same. Two turns to four, turns to eight, turns to sixteen and so on. Fundamental secularlists will say this is all a much of mumbo-jumbo. They have the right to do so. But when it's time to see Him, all knees will bow. We can do it now or then.

 

[Starfish]

The idea that God will send people to Hell is upsetting to say the least and I struggle with the issue too. However, we may very well not have a choice about the matter. The question I asked myself is what can do to help the situation. God has give everybody the chance to be a decent person weather you heard of Jesus or not. God gave us commonsense. Some people listen to it, some don't. We'll be judged according to the light we are given. It's up to us to spread the good news of salvation so that others can do the same. Two turns to four, turns to eight, turns to sixteen and so on. Fundamental secularlists will say this is all a much of mumbo-jumbo. They have the right to do so. But when it's time to see Him, all knees will bow. We can do it now or then.

Amen.

 

[uss_bigd]

On two or three Christian forums I post at, we are having numerous debates about how one is saved.

I believe that each person alive is called and it is up to each person to answer the call.

The conflicting belief is that only people God has chosen to be called are called and anyone who doesn't become saved is because God didn't choose them to be saved.

So I am wondering what the Christians at the RF believe. Do you believe anyone can be saved or only those chosen by God to be saved?

if we read 1Cor 6:9-11 it ses

"Don't you know that evil people won't have a share in the blessings of God's kingdom? Don't fool yourselves! No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a homosexual will share in God's kingdom. Neither will any thief or greedy person or drunkard or anyone who curses and cheats others. Some of you used to be like that. But now the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and the power of God's Spirit have washed you and made you holy and acceptable to God"


the question should then be ...

I. How does the power of God's spirit washes Sinners like you and me?

let us read ...

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost

II. ok ... be baptized where????

1Cor 12:13
Some of us are Jews, and others are Gentiles. Some of us are slaves, and others are free. But God's Spirit baptized each of us and made us part of the body of Christ. Now we each drink from that same Spirit.

III. which body is this referring too?

1. EPH 5:23
   For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
2. Col 1:18
   And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
3. col 1:24
   Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

WHAT IS THE NAME OF THIS CHURCH AND HOW CAN WE JOIN IT?

1 COR 1:1-2

"Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's "

1 John 1:3-4
that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. and these things we write to you that your[a] joy may be full.

by following Jesus' teachings in the bible which the aposetles have written, we will have fellowship with them

( dictionary definition of Fellowship: : to join in fellowship especially with a church member. source: mirriam=webster dictionay)


Repent Be baptized in the church oft he bible, follow what is written and have fellowship wit the apostles and you will be saved ... regardless of what sins may have previously commited.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

if we read ...

You didn't even address the question, much less answer it.:sad:

 

[uss_bigd]

You didn't even address the question, much less answer it.:sad:

the question was: Do you believe anyone can be saved or only those chosen by God to be saved?

anyone can be saved is my answer, why? all you need to do is to repent, be baptized in the church of the bible, and have fellowship with the apostles through following what is written nothingadded, nothign ommited.

The proof of this is what i written above ... i apologize for the confusion ...