Perfect Circle
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Why did God (the being controlling everything) sacrifice himself to himself?
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A question to those who question trinity
- Thread starter roddio
- Start date
I've got more of a problem with the God that would demand an unjust sacrifice than the Christ who would sacrifice himself.
That's a quote from the Psalms. It seems to me that it's more likely a reference to Psalm 22 than anything else. This might be a reminder of the general message of the Psalm (i.e. God is with you, even when things appear their bleakest), but another poster here mentioned a while back that he believed that this was Jesus' way of declaring that his death was prophecied:
Perfect Circle
Just Browsing
Ok. If Jesus isn't God, then that at least makes it easier to conceptualize. But why do I hear from most Christians that Jesus is, in fact, God in the flesh?
Lucian
Theologian
That's what most of Christendom believes, ever since the formation of Athanasian trinitarianism in the 4th-5th centuries, when it became the state religion of Roman Empire and all others were banned and persecuted. Other Christians, like myself, have always denied the decisions of their councils. But because we are such a small minority we are not the "popular voice" of the Christian religion, even though we keep to the original Christian belief of monotheism.
And why did Jesus have to die? Why not just teach with authority? He did that very well, mind you.
So?
I'd bet that many soldiers who fought in Vietnam fought regardless of knowing that they'd be spat on when they came home. I'd bet that many soldiers who are fighting in Iraq feel the same way.
No, that would directly violate free will, a concept that is crucial to Christian doctrine.
Diederick
Active Member
To make us feel guilty about it, it's like receiving a huge gift with really no means of repaying the favour.
But it is a fallacy, because the sacrifice was to himself, so he only did himself a favour. One could argue he did it for us, but he created us to serve him, so indirectly he's still doing himself a favour.
"It was all part of his plan, we're not meant to understand."
And you thought science was difficult to understand...?
I'm sorry, but the existence of a deity by defenition eliminates free will. And besides that, God's ego must stink since he wants only the 'special' people in heaven, who are 'worthy' of him.
The entire idea God had is blowing up in his face, because it was senseless to begin with.
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a sacrifice is made/given as an atonement for sin. Your right He did teach and continues to teach with authority but not many did/does believe. As the sacrifice was made now we have a direct line to God we dont need a middle man no longer we can ask God questions . God bless
My statement that most men wouldnt sacrifice themselves and were not perfect at least that is what I meant. God bless
so are you saying that Jesus is just a man? He did and continues to do some pretty amazing things. God bless
What did we learn from the sacrifice? turn away from things that are going to harm us. That does really seem like it was done for Him. God bless
When I lived in New York and I had a chance to listen to some of the vets from the vietnam war many said that the government didnt treat them that well after returning from the war. Do you think that those soldiers wouldve still went to the war if they knew that they would have to sleep on the street, become drug addicts after being injured in the war pumped drugs to keep the pain down (my uncle went to vietnam and to this day wont take pain medication for the fear of becoming addicted) and the government basically throwing them away?God bless
Amill
Apikoros
I realize that, but I just think the method he used instead is laughable. Seriously, he basically chose to use blackmail? "I will give you free will, you may believe what you want, but if you don't believe in me I'll burn you for eternity. But it's your choice, I am giving you free will because I love you."
option 1.
Make everyone believe in him and what he teaches, but still lets them live their lives and make their own decisions.
option 2.
Make his existence to everyone so obvious that it is nearly impossible to deny.
option 3.
Do some miracles, sacrifice himself for only a single population of people to see, then threaten everyone else with eternal torture(or just death, whichever you believe) if they don't believe his teachings.
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Lucian
Theologian
No, I'm saying that he is not his God. He is also not just a man, but much more. He is Christ, the Son of God, who really does continue to do amazing things.
REASON_236
Member
i am confused. is Jesus God himself, or is he the 'Son of God' but of the same godhead as the father? thx
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Diederick
Active Member
Not at all, I don't see how you could think that. The sacrifice is meant to make us feel guilty, that is all. If you are talking about the teachings of Jesus Christ, I'd like to remind you that that is a different matter.
And wouldn't we be bright enough to understand what is bad for us without some bearded guy dying on a cross "for us"?