A second contradiction in the Qur'an

[stevecanuck]

You really have shown NOTHING.

Logic and common sense should tell you the ‘spending’ cannot be related to intoxicating drinks and gambling. How could it be when God just said ‘In them is great SIN’ !! Clearly, the question ‘how much they are to spend’ is in reference to ‘spending to the Way of Allah’ and spending for charity is in line with the Way of Allah.

The ‘Way of Allah’ is the theme in Surah 2:217-218, and this theme is carried over to Surah 2:219 in the form of a question - how or what to spend to the Way of Allah.

By the way, what makes you think the ‘spending’ is for drinks ?? Your undying determination to find ‘contradictions’ in the Quran ?? I think the Jews have similar undying determination too in their attempts to find ‘faults’ in Jesus. The similarity is uncanny.


If you really have read (not just skim through) that commentary (your source of information) on Surah 2:219, then, clearly, you STILL FAILED to understand it. Read again.

Nope. Drinking and gambling was the topic at hand, therefore "spending" still refers to that. Anyway, you will obviously continue to disagree, so go right ahead. I really don't care.

 

[stevecanuck]

stevecanuck, let it go. By the way, when I left Islam, I believed I found 28 rational problems with Quran, some of them contradictions.

You can try, and we can help you figure it all out. Let this one go, and try another one. There is no contradictions in Quran as far as I'm aware of.

Please tell me how the underlined do not contradict each other.

 

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Please tell me how the underlined do not contradict each other.

I'm saying once I believed there were contradictions and now I don't believe so.

 

[firedragon]

You know that by "language" I mean "manner of speaking", but it's fun to pretend that I meant "Arabic". If I had meant "Arabic", I would have simply said so.

Ah. So maybe you would be open to look at some linguistics then, ignoring your bogus claim about "Quranic language" means "leave it aside" which is an English statement means "it is Haram and if you do it you will be damned" etc etc that you said with your preexisting false definition you got from the the sky. If this kind of "creation" deserves respect, it dumps the meaning of it in the gutter.

This in Arabic is called a Dhameyr asshaan, which means it is addressing the person. The third person. So it in its simple form means "stay away from him". The verse is speaking about "Aamalusshaythan" which means "the arm of rebellious deviation" which is Shaythan so stay away from him so that you may burgeon.

Dont make things up, neither should you learn this kind of made up bogus statements from "those who made things up". Have some humility to read and understand what foundations are.

There is no contradiction whatsoever, other than in these made up statements of yours.

 

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He's a novice when it comes to Quran. It's okay, we all been there. Inshallah, keep reflecting over the Quran stevecanuck, even try to find logical problems and contradictions. Come back to us whenever you think you found one.

 

[firedragon]

Please tell me how the underlined do not contradict each other.

I think you should read several times before beginning to make up your mind, or clarify decently.

Nowhere in the Quran does it say "If you drink wine we will damn you to hell". But it is clear that it is considered a hindrance and is prohibited if you read the Quran. Also mate, you should know that Hamar comes from HMR meaning a covering. Turn it into Himar it is a physical covering, and Hamar is a psychological or mental covering. It could refer to intoxicants (Normal word being Sukra in the Quran) or some other thing. Aamalusshaythan is the opposite of Aamalussaalihath. Thus, this is not considered "haram and you will be damned for ever" like you would love to claim like you already did with your bogus "this is the language of the Quran".

The Quran is telling you, the reader to avoid.

Also, how in the world did you decide "spend" means "spend on alcohol and gambling? Can you explain linguistically how you decided that? Do you have any linguistic expertise in Fusha atthurath to make such a claim? Dont you understand Balagha in Arabic? No. Googling it and asking "if this is reach" is not the method. Balagha is a grammatical term in language. It signifies an end of something. When the Quran says Nafaa, and ends with the najroor, it is ended. Then beginning with Wa means its a new matter, "and dont do this also/too/either".

What should you spend? Its a faala madhaara and it is you spending money which is another advice to spend the excess. This Nafak is also the root for hypocrite. Spending here is not spending money on buying food for your baby, it is spending extra. The verse says "spend only the Eafwaa" which means the extra money or resources you have got left over. Do not waste.

Only if you have some honesty and humility will you ponder. But when you have an agenda you will make things up. It will work on the ignorant, and only the ignorant. Good luck with that.

 

[firedragon]

He's a novice when it comes to Quran. It's okay, we all been there. Inshallah, keep reflecting over the Quran stevecanuck, even try to find logical problems and contradictions. Come back to us whenever you think you found one.

Brother. Apologies for saying this. A novice is a person who has no experience, not someone who claims to be an expert. Expert enough to say things like "You dont understand the language of the Quran". Imagine someone who says this kind of thing??

Peace.

 

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Brother. Apologies for saying this. A novice is a person who has no experience, not someone who claims to be an expert. Expert enough to say things like "You dont understand the language of the Quran". Imagine someone who says this kind of thing??

Peace.

It's normal, remember Queen of Sheba, it was her throne, instead of realizing the miracle, she's like "yeah I got one like it" and took her time to digest the miracle. Humans think too much of themselves, it's normal, everyone is like that. They think they know and others are fools. It's normal, inshallah, he keeps reflecting even if it's just to find faults. When he finds none maybe he will reflect over it's clear signs and insights, then everything will become clear to him.

Peace.

 

[firedragon]

It's normal, remember Queen of Sheba, it was her throne, instead of realizing the miracle, she's like "yeah I got one like it" and took her time to digest the miracle. Humans think too much of themselves, it's normal, everyone is like that. They think they know and others are fools. It's normal, inshallah, he keeps reflecting even if it's just to find faults. When he finds none maybe he will reflect over it's clear signs and insights, then everything will become clear to him.

Peace.

Inshaallah.

 

[JerryMyers]

Nope. Drinking and gambling was the topic at hand, therefore "spending" still refers to that.

Silly man. If God just said “In them is great sin”, would He then say “if you have extra spending, spend them on drinks and gambling” ??!! That’s like you telling your kid, “Never steal or take anything that don’t belong to you, but, if someone refuse to share with you something that you fancy, then, just take it from him” !! Really, Steve, try to display some maturity and logical sense in your analysis of any holy scripture.

Anyway, you will obviously continue to disagree, so go right ahead. I really don't care.

Of course, you don’t care - it shows through your writings. You are only interested to find faults with the Quran.

As I said earlier, your undying determination to find ‘contradictions’ in the Quran is uncannily similar to the undying determination of the Jews to find ‘faults’ in Jesus.

You should ask yourself - are you here to seek the truth or are you here to just find ‘faults’ in the Quran ?? If you are here to seek the truth, then, open your mind and think with logic and rationale, but, if you are here just to find ‘faults’, then, no explanations can change your view as you only see ‘faults’ in the Quran, just as no words of Jesus will change the views of the Jews as they too see only ‘faults’ in Jesus. So be honest with yourself.

 

[stevecanuck]

I'm saying once I believed there were contradictions and now I don't believe so.

Fair enough. Not only do I see contradictions, but I see Mohamed having to scramble and make up “revelations” on the spot when things don’t go as expected. Prime example is Allah “alternating victories” after Uhud went south.

 

[stevecanuck]

He's a novice when it comes to Quran. It's okay, we all been there. Inshallah, keep reflecting over the Quran stevecanuck, even try to find logical problems and contradictions. Come back to us whenever you think you found one.

Thanks, now I have to clean all that dripping condescension off my screen.

 

[stevecanuck]

You really have shown NOTHING.

By the way, what makes you think the ‘spending’ is for drinks ??

Oh, I dunno. Maybe because that was the topic at hand.

 

[stevecanuck]

Can you tell me the difference between Hamar and Hamar?

Well, that was clear.

(7th letter Ha and the deep Ha) since you have an expertise in the Quranic language? Maybe some light on the verse could be shed.

Yup. I also know the difference between dal and Dod, seen and Sod, etc.

 

[stevecanuck]

If you dont know arabic, why do you tell others "you dont know the Quranic language"?

Are you still pretending that you don't know I was referring to the manner of speaking as opposed to Arabic itself?

I suppose if pretend "gotchas" are all you have, you stick with them.

 

[firedragon]

Yup. I also know the difference between dal and Dod, seen and Sod, etc.

It was "Ha". Not sadh or dhal.

Are you still pretending that you don't know I was referring to the manner of speaking as opposed to Arabic itself?

I suppose if pretend "gotchas" are all you have, you stick with them.

Lol. Old post mate.

I have shown you your mistake in a post. Of course you will not respond properly. Do you want me to cut and paste?

Nowhere in the Quran does it say "If you drink wine we will damn you to hell". But it is clear that it is considered a hindrance and is prohibited if you read the Quran. Also mate, you should know that Hamar comes from HMR meaning a covering. Turn it into Himar it is a physical covering, and Hamar is a psychological or mental covering. It could refer to intoxicants (Normal word being Sukra in the Quran) or some other thing. Aamalusshaythan is the opposite of Aamalussaalihath. Thus, this is not considered "haram and you will be damned for ever" like you would love to claim like you already did with your bogus "this is the language of the Quran".

The Quran is telling you, the reader to avoid.

Also, how in the world did you decide "spend" means "spend on alcohol and gambling? Can you explain linguistically how you decided that? Do you have any linguistic expertise in Fusha atthurath to make such a claim? Dont you understand Balagha in Arabic? No. Googling it and asking "if this is reach" is not the method. Balagha is a grammatical term in language. It signifies an end of something. When the Quran says Nafaa, and ends with the najroor, it is ended. Then beginning with Wa means its a new matter, "and dont do this also/too/either".

What should you spend? Its a faala madhaara and it is you spending money which is another advice to spend the excess. This Nafak is also the root for hypocrite. Spending here is not spending money on buying food for your baby, it is spending extra. The verse says "spend only the Eafwaa" which means the extra money or resources you have got left over. Do not waste.

Only if you have some honesty and humility will you ponder. But when you have an agenda you will make things up. It will work on the ignorant, and only the ignorant. Good luck with that.

 

[stevecanuck]

Also, how in the world did you decide "spend" means "spend on alcohol and gambling?

It was the subject of the verse. No mystery.

 

[firedragon]

It was the subject of the verse. No mystery.

You are mistaken. It’s alright not to understand language, but humility is important to understand what it says and what people say.

You are absolutely wrong.

 

[JerryMyers]

Oh, I dunno. Maybe because that was the topic at hand.

Oh, you dunno and ‘maybe that was the topic at hand’ ??!
If that’s the case, then, it’s only fair to say all your comments in this thread are NOT based on facts (‘maybe’ tells us your ‘finding’ is just guesswork, not a fact) nor are they based on logical and rational thinking, BUT rather your comments are based on conjectures and your undying determination to find ‘faults/contradictions’ in the Quran – would that be a fair statement to make ??

 

[stevecanuck]

I've done some more reading, and I'm willing to admit that "God" possibly changed subjects in mid-verse, and that the spending referred to was for something other than drink and gambling. The most likely candidates are jihad or charity.