A speaker of the way

[Thief]

Where do your conceptions spring from? Please share them, it may be constructive.

Replacing borg with death does not matter, the point illustrated was that enlightenment and borg are poor substitutes for each other.

You are speaking of life after death, a continuance of the consciousness into another life, even more, it seems you will carry over all aspects (body, mind, consciousness, soul). This we are not speaking of.

To lose the Self is to realize that this 'dust' you are speaking of is no better or worse than you are, that you are but different manifestations of creation, an idea which was powerful enough to materialize. What we lose while interacting with this manifestation is the connection to the idea, or rather, the force behind the idea. It is easier to accept that which is before us, easier to interact and build relationships to that which is more concrete, easier to rely on cause and effect and other dualities which litter this idea. It is difficult to conceptualize something which one has no experience with. Use the example of language again: someone could offend you or compliment you in a language you had never heard, how could you understand which it was?

If that window appears to be broken just remember this: the window is the barrier constructed by the self, if you see it as broken, look within.

Oh, I know we understand each other.
You're just trying to say 'nay'.

What I say comes from straight forward observation.
Anyone can see as I do...most people just cling to their discussion hoping it ain't so.

You have five senses and a unique parcel of flesh.
You have a linear existence.
You were born to be special.
Your collection of experiences make you interesting.

Of course, as an assembly...you are at risk of being disassembled.
We know it is possible to lose your mind.
We know that dysfunction can take hold at various levels.

But we all die, regardless of faith or lack of.

How you crossover into the next life has been influenced by how you lived.
And again by how you deal with others.

6billion people will die within my life time.
Most will die badly.
Caught up in shallow thinking...or unprepared for lack of....
such spirit will fail to stand when the body lays down for that last breath.

But even if you succeed, even you stand up from your dust....
All those who went before you will gather around to have a look.

Judge not by sight ...lest you be judged on sight.
No one will ask you anything.
Judge not by rumor...lest you be judged by hearsay.
No one will ask you anything.
But if you insist....make certain your own mind and heart first.

But then again, all you will be is dust.
Your discussion leads nowhere but the ground.
As if you were never born.

I don't think Buddha would disagree.
He probably wouldn't say anything.
How about you?

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

Oh, I know we understand each other.
You're just trying to say 'nay'.

Ah, who is neighing?

I understand you and your point of view, but it is dependent upon outside faith, not inner peace. I have followed different paths in my life, and have explored their dogmas and could not find peace. I realized that nothing without, no promises, no creed, no deity could offer me that peace. The only entity who could offer me peace and insight was myself, and only after grasping it within, could I loose myself and learn from the universe around me and forget what I appeared to be and remember what I was.

You seem to have a misconception that the losing of Self means that there is no more individual, that is very far from the truth. After learning how to shed Self, one is still an individual and very much in control of themselves and their choices. One does not become a shell void of personality and voice, one is simply in a deep relationship with the universe and at peace. It's the same as being angry: you still have a choice of how to act and what to say, it isn't a giving up of your mind to act blindly and be absolved of any actions through ignorance. If anything, loosing Self and control is the height of control.

Standing up after death has nothing to do with the losing the self or gaining enlightenment, it springs from a totally separate concept.

Where do your conceptions spring from? Please share them, it may be constructive.

 

[Thief]

Ah, who is neighing?

I understand you and your point of view, but it is dependent upon outside faith, not inner peace. I have followed different paths in my life, and have explored their dogmas and could not find peace. I realized that nothing without, no promises, no creed, no deity could offer me that peace. The only entity who could offer me peace and insight was myself, and only after grasping it within, could I loose myself and learn from the universe around me and forget what I appeared to be and remember what I was.

You seem to have a misconception that the losing of Self means that there is no more individual, that is very far from the truth. After learning how to shed Self, one is still an individual and very much in control of themselves and their choices. One does not become a shell void of personality and voice, one is simply in a deep relationship with the universe and at peace. It's the same as being angry: you still have a choice of how to act and what to say, it isn't a giving up of your mind to act blindly and be absolved of any actions through ignorance. If anything, loosing Self and control is the height of control.

Standing up after death has nothing to do with the losing the self or gaining enlightenment, it springs from a totally separate concept.

So perhaps we are not so different.
Yet....retaining your ability to think and feel is connected to your past.
You are the person you are, for the life you have lived.
When this life ends...and you continue onward...you will retain your past.
Your sense of action is based on previous experience.
Your choice of action is predictable.

If... in this life you held no mercy for a thief....
in the next life ....you would do the same.

Or would you?

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

It seems to me that from your POV we are trapped. You state that we are souls given a material body to learn and progress, that we die and continue moving forward after death. But where? Who states that we must be judged? Who draws up the reference for atonement/accountability? Who judges?

 

[Thief]

It seems to me that from your POV we are trapped. You state that we are souls given a material body to learn and progress, that we die and continue moving forward after death. But where? Who states that we must be judged? Who draws up the reference for atonement/accountability? Who judges?

Trapped for now....yes.
At this moment you're stuck in your body.
We all are.
No exceptions. (though I think the life and work of Edgar Cayce is an interesting story).

If it were common for us to escape the flesh, this discussion probably would not take place. We would be discussing life in different terms.

Ironically, we will. Now sooner do we die, we seek to escape the body.
When you drop for the last time, there will be one desire waiting for you.
You will desire to stand up.
Your body won't respond....but you should try.

If you succeed, the discussion about the next life will be there waiting for you.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you....
is more than a code of conduct for this life.
It is fair warning unto the next.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

Haha, you have an amazing talent of not answering questions.

It seems we seek two different destinations. You seek continuation, I seek peace. Yes, peace through giving up the self.

Please explain why we would continue after this life as the same Ego, it interests me. And please answer who it is who will be our judge. Is this an outside idea, or is it the Self?

 

[Thief]

Haha, you have an amazing talent of not answering questions.

It seems we seek two different destinations. You seek continuation, I seek peace. Yes, peace through giving up the self.

Please explain why we would continue after this life as the same Ego, it interests me. And please answer who it is who will be our judge. Is this an outside idea, or is it the Self?

I did answer the question.

And there is only one hereafter. The destination is the same.
Heaven is a place of peace. Peace first.

You can't let go of your ego. You are who you are.
How you are dealt with is up to you.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

What must one accomplish to achieve Heaven?

 

[Thief]

What must one accomplish to achieve Heaven?

Heaven is not a goal. It is not a prize.
If you enter...it's because you belong there.

Some say it is by 'grace'.
By that, it is allowance.

If heaven is a place of peace, who do you let in?
You are seeking peace.
Therefore, you are no different than I am.
Or are you?

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

The peace I seek is in this life, not after death. Death will come, and who can say what will happen then?

 

[Thief]

The peace I seek is in this life, not after death. Death will come, and who can say what will happen then?

Yeah well...not believing in the hereafter is a bit short.

Compared to the time span of the known universe, Man hasn't been around very long.
As individuals, life is extremely brief.

Not much point in such brevity. Not much point in living without something more to look forward to.
Not believing in life after death...are you not selling yourself short?

Who can say what comes after death? any and all prophets...any believer.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Thief,

Yeah well...not believing in the hereafter is a bit short.

Compared to the time span of the known universe, Man hasn't been around very long.
As individuals, life is extremely brief.

Not much point in such brevity. Not much point in living without something more to look forward to.
Not believing in life after death...are you not selling yourself short?

Who can say what comes after death? any and all prophets...any believer.

What comes after death?

There is no death.
Death is only a transformation; is an understanding.
Life continues from eternity to eternity; forms [including humans] comes and goes but always evolving.

Love & rgds

 

[Thief]

Friend Thief,



What comes after death?

There is no death.
Death is only a transformation; is an understanding.
Life continues from eternity to eternity; forms [including humans] comes and goes but always evolving.

Love & rgds

Are you not assuming death is the same for all?
Are you sure?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Thief,

Are you not assuming death is the same for all?
Are you sure?

Now, where did this *DOUBT* [in you] arise from?
can you tell me?

Love & rgds

 

[Thief]

Friend Thief,



Now, where did this *DOUBT* [in you] arise from?
can you tell me?

Love & rgds

No doubt.
Are you sure that death is the same for all?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Thief,

Are you sure that death is the same for all?

Truth is same for all and that is that there is nothing as death what is are perceptions of the mind [thoughts].

Love & rgds

 

[Thief]

Friend Thief,



Truth is same for all and that is that there is nothing as death what is are perceptions of the mind [thoughts].

Love & rgds

You're skirting the question.
Let's call it anything you want to.
When the body shuts down....is it the same for everyone?

 

[ChrisP]

Silence is golden, when understood, questions do matter.

I like what you said, but this feels closer to the mark (IMO anyway...)

 

[ChrisP]

You're skirting the question.
Let's call it anything you want to.
When the body shuts down....is it the same for everyone?

Mate you're asking questions no-one can answer. Zenzero has enough sense and humility to tell you the truth, noone knows, noone can know and noone will know the answer to these questions. The answer is not in the knowing.

 

[zenzero]

Friend ChrisP,

questions do matter

Each question finds its own answer BUT only when all questions are answered does Truth reveals itself.
That silence is golden!

Love & rgds