A Universe from Nothing?

[Rick O'Shez]

No, my issue is with your belief is that the universe is "conscious", the so-called "cosmic consciousness". I have no interests in local or nonlocal communication between one person to another, hence I think your YouTube video is rubbish.
The video don't even come close to answering my questions, OR validating your claim about the universe being conscious.

Exactly so. I watched it and it didn't support the claims being made here at all. A waste of time, not relevant, like most of the stuff that is randomly dumped into these threads by this contributor.

You think the universe is conscious because you are conscious. That's simply you projecting your belief on the universe. That's you thinking all your argument is real and true, but what you really have don't is create your own illusions.

Exactly so. And assuming that one's inner experience must define the cosmos is actually very arrogant and egocentric.

You have not brought a single logic in this thread, just your own delusion of superiority and grandeur...and yet you think the ego "I" as an illusion. Hate to break to you, godnotgod, but the whole point of Buddhism is letting that ego go, but from what I can see are as egotistic as they come. You have not close to reaching bodhi, especially when you keep bagging me about sun, garlic and coffin.

Exactly so. I came to the same conclusion a long time ago.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Heaven forbid that the Sun should rise before you get back into your coffin!
Are you afraid of crosses and garlic too?
... get back in your coffin before the Sun shrivels something up and it dies.

Par for the course, somebody disagrees with your new-age dogma so you insult them. Oh well.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

It would be helpful if you understood how to at least utilize basic logic. However, as your arguments stand, they are a hodge-podge tangle of nitwit notions linked together that do not make any real sense, based more on emotion than on logic.

Pot calling the kettle black, because this description applies exactly to the new-age fluff you preach. It is an illogical muddle of fact-twisting, false equivalences and nonsensical conclusions.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Actually, what Newtonian mechanics measures is the result of what is going on at the sub-atomic level. Without it, there is no 'Newtonian' anything.

It doesn't change the fact that our everyday world is dominated by Newtonian mechanics.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I understand that, but just because you don't see what's involved in the experience does not mean you are not experiencing it. If I shock you with electricity, you experience it, but you don't see the electrons causing your distress. It is because of the spacial, sub-atomic, atomic, and molecular structure of the brick that you feel pain when dropped on your foot.

So what? I am talking about the way we actually experience things. We see trees, not quarks. We experience an electric shock, we don't see a flow of electrons.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

It cannot be described in rational terms, and yet is immediately apparent and obvious to everyone as direct experience. It IS one's ongoing experience even prior to self-awareness, and because of that, it is not a personal experience, but a non-local one. It is, in fact, the experience of The Universe expressing itself as you. Your false sense of self only thinks it is yours. It's true nature is that it is empty of inherent self-nature. It is Sunyata. You are Sunyata.

I do wish you would stop muddling up Buddhist teachings with your new-age fluff.

I have repeatedly explained to you that sunyata means consciousness lacks inherent existence, so it is conditional and doesn't exist from it's own side. So sunyata directly contradicts your new-age belief that consciousness is a fundamental property of the cosmos.
And by the way, sunyata is also empty ( emptiness of emptiness ) so starting it with a capital "S" like you do is pretentious nonsense.

Your new-age beliefs are much closer to Hinduism, so it is beyond me why you keep harping on about Buddhism.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I am not talking about you mentioning maya itself, but with your point when you wrote this:

ben d said: ↑
consciousness is an aspect of the universe....

That's what I think is maya or "illusion".

You given a definite statement when use the word "is"; not "probably", not "maybe".

When you wrote "is an aspect", then I would like to know - How do you know he universe has "consciousness" or at the very least "an aspect of" it?

And now please answer the question...from whence does the ordering principle of consciousness arise?

How do you know what you are clearly positively claiming is not an illusion?

Because....you for starters are conscious are you not (though sometimes you make me wonder)? And you are a part of the universe, are you not? Thus logically it follows that consciousness is an aspect of the universe....that's how i know it is not an illusion, silly..

And now please answer the follow on question...from whence does the ordering principle of consciousness arise?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Well, if the universe was conscious wouldn't it have feelings, wouldn't it be trying to meet an end goal or something like that, just like what conscious beings are doing? Nothing in physics says that is how the universe behaves. Personally I think that that theory is just us projecting ourselves onto things which have no business being conscious.

Yes, it is an obvious example of anthropomorphism, projecting out human qualities onto the cosmos. It is common in systems of religious belief.

 

[godnotgod]

...sunyata means consciousness lacks inherent existence... .

Read my post again, because that is precisely what I said.

 

[gnostic]

And now please answer the follow on question...from whence does the ordering principle of consciousness arise?

Oh. I thought that question was meant for ak.yonathan...I didn't realise you were asking me the same question that you were asking him. Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore the question.

To tell you the truth, I cannot answer this question.

Can you explain or clarify what you mean by "ordering principle"?

 

[godnotgod]

>>And it all came from nothing !<<

Unfortunately, it's not going back into nothing. He is one who dwells in the kingdom of darkness.

I know better than to ask a New Age religionist and pagan a question about Jesus. It was rhetorical. Your views are entwined in the bizarre and counterfeit that you cannot possibly listen nor understand the genuine Jesus. At least, I tried to listen to what you were saying, but it is pointless. You are one full of the counterfeit bible, deception, delusions and strangeness.

Everything comes out of Nothing and returns to it. What we call Everything are all just actions, mistaken for things. The wave-form rises up out of the formless sea, and returns to The Formless. Even what we call self and I are just frozen concepts, but in reality are actions, like the wave. The ego's greatest fear is that it will come to an end; it wants to go on in perpetuity, so it invents a heaven and a hell with reward and punishment for the deserving and the undeserving, which is just a form of the ego's game of the interplay of the Persona and the Shadow, in order to keep the ego in a superior position to that which it considers inferior. What we fail to realize is that to dwell in Nothingness is to have Everything; Nothingness being Pure Consciousness, free from Identification, birth and death.

I believe in the real man that was Yeshua, and not the phony Romanized Jesus, the myth that never existed. I do not give any credence in the pagan practice of blood sacrifice that Christianity inherited and adopted as its own. It stinks. I know. I was a Catholic for many many years, and an altar boy to boot.

You say you tried to listen to me. Did you go to the site I referenced so you can educate yourself about who and what 'Jesus' really was/is, instead of the dogma you have been indoctrinated with?

I have nothing to do with new age religions or paganism. You have allowed yourself to become infected with lies from other misguided individuals on this forum. But that is your business.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Read my post again, because that is precisely what I said.

You are being slippery, and you know full well the point I was making: consciousness having no inherent existence contradicts your new-age beliefs like "Cosmic Consciousness" and the big bang being an "event in consciousness".

 

[godnotgod]

Par for the course, somebody disagrees with your new-age dogma so you insult them. Oh well.

Sir, the video he referenced provided scientific proof that the brain is capable of nonlocal communication, which he denies is fact. I even provided a link to the actual publication of the experiement. Why are you sticking your nose into something you know nothing about?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I have nothing to do with new age religions or paganism. You have allowed yourself to become infected with lies from other misguided individuals on this forum. But that is your business.

Nonsense. You are clearly a new-ager, like your hero, the charlatan Chopra. You misrepresent authentic teachings and muddle them up with pseudo-science.

 

[godnotgod]

You are being slippery, and you know full well the point I was making: consciousness having no inherent existence contradicts your new-age beliefs like "Cosmic Consciousness" and the big bang being an "event in consciousness".

I know nothing of the sort. I said what I said, but you want to add all sorts of nonsensical fluff to it. Read the post again until you understand it clearly.

 

[godnotgod]

It doesn't change the fact that our everyday world is dominated by Newtonian mechanics.

Maybe your world is dominated by Newtonian mechanics, but not mine. Your statement is totally ridiculous. I am free, thanks to Zen.

 

[godnotgod]

Pot calling the kettle black, because this description applies exactly to the new-age fluff you preach. It is an illogical muddle of fact-twisting, false equivalences and nonsensical conclusions.

Your mind is a muddle, so that's how you see the world. You cannot see that the 'world' of Newtonian physics and that of Quantum physics is one and the same world. There are not two worlds. You still live in duality. Get out.

 

[godnotgod]

You are being slippery, and you know full well the point I was making: consciousness having no inherent existence contradicts your new-age beliefs like "Cosmic Consciousness" and the big bang being an "event in consciousness".

HAL, your mind is slipping.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Oh. I thought that question was meant for ak.yonathan...I didn't realise you were asking me the same question that you were asking him. Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore the question.

To tell you the truth, I cannot answer this question.

Can you explain or clarify what you mean by "ordering principle"?

Well consciousness operates on rules, principles, awareness has focus, etc., that allows mind to analyse those aspects of the universal environment that are relevant....there must exist some intrinsic ordering principle in nature that is at the heart of consciousness to facilitate this..

 

[godnotgod]

Yes, it is an obvious example of anthropomorphism, projecting out human qualities onto the cosmos. It is common in systems of religious belief.

The dictionary definition of antrhopomorphism is:

the attribution of human characteristics or behavior to a god, animal, or object.

I am not doing that. I am simply saying that the Universe is conscious. If anything, I am merely an extension of the conscious Universe, just as the wave is an extension of the vast sea.