A Universe from Nothing?

[Polymath257]

and you think the laws of the universe....preceded....the creation?

I don't. I don't think anything preceded the universe. I don't call it creation because I don't believe it to be created.

 

[Thief]

I don't. I don't think anything preceded the universe. I don't call it creation because I don't believe it to be created.

and so you would insist....?
substance can 'jump' ....just cause of .....nothing

beware the gravel in your driveway

 

[Polymath257]

and so you would insist....?
substance can 'jump' ....just cause of .....nothing
beware the gravel in your driveway

Nope. Not my claim. Read above to see my thoughts.

 

[Thief]

Nope. Not my claim. Read above to see my thoughts.

it's one or the other.....
having denied spirit....you have chosen substance

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yes, but I am a mathematician. We don't change theories the way the sciences do. We had a few issues about 100 years ago with set theory, but things seem to have calmed down. In particular, math doesn't use the scientific method, but it also doesn't say anything about the real world. It uses formal systems and sees what can be derived from them. If, then, that language can be used in the sciences, that is (usually) someone else's job.

Interesting field, I see why we are looking at the same reality using different approaches to understand reality. I like to describe my approach as direct, and any approach that uses conceptual interpretation as indirect. The indirect way is of course the natural way of human civilization, and I'm not knocking it, though unfortunately many folk's minds work in binary, if you are not one of us, you are against us. I hope you do not think that I am not aware of the tremendous good that comes from learning about physical reality through educational courses.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

There are many things that are not tangible, but are real. And many things that are not tangible, but also not abstract. Time is real, not 'tangible' and not abstract. It is easily measured.

Everything in the universe shares in its eternal nature, but not all is cyclical. It is things that have a cyclical movement that serves as a measure against relative movement of the non-cyclical, that create the idea of time. Time is an idea of the mind, it is not real in the sense of it existing as a discrete entity, but it is real as an abstract idea.

If you think time is real, what is this discrete entity represented by the concept "time", does it have spatial quality or quantity, does it have energy quality or quantity?

 

[ChristineM]

I am tangible, the earth is tangible, but the reality represented by the concept of time isn't. How does time cause entropy?

Believe whatever nonsense you want, its a symptom of lack of understanding

The thermodynamic arrow of time is a consiquence of the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which says that in an isolated system, entropy tends to increase with time.

 

[ChristineM]

Correct, time is not causing these things, time is only an abstract concept that is a measure of the effect of the actions of universal forces. Time is not a tangible thing.

Nope, you are attributing the passage of time in human terms when in reality it is far more profound, an integral mechanism of this universe

 

[ChristineM]

Academics, even with initiative, are mostly not in a position to change the curriculum, the books that the particular syllabus uses may be in print by the millions...not easy to change quickly. Professors who attained their degrees according to a particular syllabus tend to teach that which from which they earned their degree.

You are the master of the blinding obvious... You think. However you are wrong, professors are the very people who advise the change of curriculum. Note how many text books are written by professor's

 

[ChristineM]

and you think the laws of the universe....preceded....the creation?

Actually i was specific in stating that the laws of the universe began to coalesce after the creation therefore causality was not a factor

 

[ChristineM]

and you think the laws of the universe....preceded....the creation?

However i think you think of the word creation as god magic while i think of it as a begining

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Believe whatever nonsense you want, its a symptom of lack of understanding

The thermodynamic arrow of time is a consiquence of the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which says that in an isolated system, entropy tends to increase with time.

So what does any of that have to do with the reality represented by the concept of time. If you are not are able to explain clearly what the reality represented by the name 'time' is , then you are merely repeating things you have read, monkey knowledge!

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Nope, you are attributing the passage of time in human terms when in reality it is far more profound, an integral mechanism of this universe

So please, in your own words, explain what time is?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You are the master of the blinding obvious... You think. However you are wrong, professors are the very people who advise the change of curriculum. Note how many text books are written by professor's

So, that doesn't change anything, how often are professors going to throw out the books they have written to make way for their new ones..haha?

 

[Thief]

However i think you think of the word creation as god magic while i think of it as a begining

if you want to call the Will of God...magic...ok

 

[Thief]

Actually i was specific in stating that the laws of the universe began to coalesce after the creation therefore causality was not a factor

I suspect God had a plan
Let there be light......was step one

 

[Polymath257]

it's one or the other.....
having denied spirit....you have chosen substance

Nope. Go back and read what I said.

 

[Polymath257]

So, that doesn't change anything, how often are professors going to throw out the books they have written to make way for their new ones..haha?

Well, let's see. Physics professors did almost exactly that about 100 years ago. With the discovery of quantum physics and of relativity, the old books were shown to be wrong. When the background radiation was discovered, those books that discussed the Steady State theory had to be discarded or re-written. In cosmology, the discovery of accelerated expansion showed that the cosmological constant couldn't be ignored, requiring more re-writes.

In biology, the work of Gould on punctuated equilibrium required some of the books on evolution to be re-written. When the links between birds and theopod dinosaurs was discovered, that required a number of books to be re-written.

So, yes, the old editions are thrown out and the new editions with the new material take their place.

Were you unaware this has happened?

 

[Polymath257]

So what does any of that have to do with the reality represented by the concept of time. If you are not are able to explain clearly what the reality represented by the name 'time' is , then you are merely repeating things you have read, monkey knowledge!

A quote from a book on general relativity: "time is defined so that motion looks simple."

 

[Thief]

time is a quotient.....by defintion