A Universe from Nothing?

[Ben Dhyan]

I did not notice you whining at gng when he quoted Google.
How pathetic your arguments!!!
My reply was to gng who quoted a google link. I simply replied in kind, you don't like facts then that's just tough, grow up

It is not just that you quoted google, but you used it to choose one four word statement attributed to Gautama out of a plethora of material available and that is the extent of your research on the religion of Buddhism....pathetic..

 

[Ponder This]

Do you think that the 'something' you refer to is real?

a something is a thing that is unspecified or unknown. It may or may not be a real thing as we can use the word to refer to things that are not real as well as those things that are real.

 

[ChristineM]

Utter nonsense, as it you expect us to believe the only words Gautama ever uttered was ""the way things are.", and this is all the religion of Buddhism is based on? I suggest you do some more research and let us know what else he taught...

"only" why do you insist on lying about what i write? You will not misquote me in your childish attempt to gain god point

Ok, you tell that to

Buddhism in a Nutshell - Is Buddhism a Religion

And

Diamond Way Buddhism in Zagon

And
What is Buddhism? - Diamond Way Buddhism Hong Kong

Wont go on further and embarrass you more but I'm pretty sure they have a more in depth understanding of Buddhism than you seem to.

I'll repeat the definition of religion because it seems you are unaware of it.

Religion : the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

So please tell me which gods a Buddhist worships

You may need to do some research to learn the answer.

Interesting how you go into full attack mode when you get beat... Good fun too.

 

[ChristineM]

So be it, you refuse to admit your error and raise a strawman.

Let me say it again, my religious practice is stilling my mind to realize union with God. I now ask you, is my practice religious or not?

I made no error, but you refuse to admit you statement was false and now you try all the insulting and devious triuckjs you can to save face

 

[ChristineM]

It is not just that you quoted google, but you used it to choose one four word statement attributed to Gautama out of a plethora of material available and that is the extent of your research on the religion of Buddhism....pathetic..

Once again you are misrepresenting me. How ignorant can you get to hide your embarrassment?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

"only" why do you insist on lying about what i write? You will not misquote me in your childish attempt to gain god point

Ok, you tell that to

Buddhism in a Nutshell - Is Buddhism a Religion

And

Diamond Way Buddhism in Zagon

And
What is Buddhism? - Diamond Way Buddhism Hong Kong

Wont go on further and embarrass you more but I'm pretty sure they have a more in depth understanding of Buddhism than you seem to.

I'll repeat the definition of religion because it seems you are unaware of it.

Religion : the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

So please tell me which gods a Buddhist worships

You may need to do some research to learn the answer.

Interesting how you go into full attack mode when you get beat... Good fun too.

Christine, your definition of 'religion' is another example of your lack of understanding in how to research a topic. Use google by all means but do sufficient research to apprehend the full depth of meaning and usage and not just a cherry picked one...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I made no error, but you refuse to admit you statement was false and now you try all the insulting and devious triuckjs you can to save face

Just answer my question..

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Once again you are misrepresenting me. How ignorant can you get to hide your embarrassment?

...

 

[ChristineM]

Christine, your definition of 'religion' is another example of your lack of understanding in how to research a topic. Use google by all means but do sufficient research to apprehend the full depth of meaning and usage and not just a cherry picked one...

You rewriting of the definition of religion is not my problem, the definition i use us the commonly accepted one.

 

[ChristineM]

Just answer my question..

I did 2 days ago and yesterday. Read the link, im not reading it for you

 

[godnotgod]

Ahh, you mean you don't agree with the established definition. Fair enough, why didn't you say so before? So what's your definition of space? Can i suggest you put it forward for revue and see if it can be accepted to replace the definition that the world understands.

I told you several times I did not agree with the scientific definition as you presented it: the dimensions of height, width, and depth, and saying that 'space is those dimensions'. As I also said, at least science itself qualifies its definition by calling it a 'concept'. Space itself is indefinable.

Consciousness has little to do with space other than the awareness that it exists.

That has nothing to do with my question, which, once again is:

"Where does your consciousness leave off and space begin?"

So prior to defining it as 'the dimensions of height, width, and depth', there is an awareness of something that exists called 'space'. What is it prior to defining it in conceptual terms?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You rewriting of the definition of religion is not my problem, the definition i use us the commonly accepted one.

Do you think the doctrine of reincarnation or rebirth is a secular teaching or religious?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I did 2 days ago and yesterday. Read the link, im not reading it for you

My question has nothing to do with anything from the link, I am asking you if you still believe my still mind meditation practice is not a religious practice?

 

[godnotgod]

a something is a thing that is unspecified or unknown. It may or may not be a real thing as we can use the word to refer to things that are not real as well as those things that are real.

Yes, but in the context of the way you used it, as the opposite of nothing, I am asking you if this 'something' is real, 'something' to mean the material Universe.

 

[godnotgod]

Looks like you are tipping over the edge and straw men like Hitler and his popularity have nothing to do with it other than he was a Christian leader of a Christian country with a high approval rating.

So 2.2 billion Christians are wrong and you who has faith that space is a human concept is right... Wow.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Jesus-Terrorist-Peter-Cresswell/1846942748

Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth: Amazon.co.uk: Reza Aslan: 9781908906298: Books

See also the books of
Sara Reinke - Pantera
Robert Eisenman – James, the brother of Christ,
Hyam Maccobys – The Mythmaker,
Danial Underbank – Judas the Galilean: the flesh and blood Jesus

You are missing the point about Hitler as it relates to the discussion. Like Christians, who believe in the myth of the Romanized 'Jesus' which is essentially a lie, Germans also believed in the dual myth of German racial superiority as it relates to Jewish racial inferiority, ie 'untermenschen'. In both cases, the believers also acted on those beliefs, with devastating consequences for their scapegoats. Hitler's 'popularity' only came about due to a large enough quantity of people believing in his lies, just as Christians truly believe that the Jesus of Paul is the real McCoy.

You are twisting my words. I never said that 'space is a human concept'; I said that science defines space as a concept, and that 2.2 billion Christians believe in what is essentially a myth, because the real man, Yeshua, a Nazarene, who belongs to a Jewish mystical cult, never taught the doctrines of blood sacrifice, bodily resurrection, nor that of the virgin birth, doctrines that had been overwritten onto the authentic teachings of Yeshua.

I read Maccoby's 'Mythmaker', which states that Paul created the myth from the 3 elements I previously posted.

There was neither a Jesus nor a 1st century Nazareth.

Nazareth – The Town that Theology Built

...but there are today 2.2 billion Christians who fell for that story, hook, line, and sinker.

 

[Thief]

a something is a thing that is unspecified or unknown. It may or may not be a real thing as we can use the word to refer to things that are not real as well as those things that are real.

reality is real......

seems circular in having to say so

but if all of the universe came from nothing
then Spirit is begotten of substance
and I don't believe that

so...Spirit is something
unknown.....undefined....

oh but then again.....Moses met Someone on that mountain
and many other prophets did as well

that we don't know what we chase after.....doesn't mean there is nothing ahead of us

 

[gnostic]

So? How many good Germans had faith in Hitler? The sheer numbers have little to do with real faith, and more to do with fear of everlasting damnation galvanized with the promise of some future heavenly paradise.

You do realise it was more than religion and more than fear that they followed Hitler. You need to understand the circumstances as to why the Germans followed him.

After World War I, a new form of government developed, as a republic. But the aftermath of the war, Germany was crippled by very high unemployment and economic depression (in 1922). It got even worse when Great Depression hit the US and European markets, in 1929.

Hitler's policies brought them out of the depression, rebuilding Germany. The nazi won in 1932, by 1934 this rebuilding programme cause the unemployment dropped and wages to rise.

I am not saying that I like Hitler or Nazi Germany, but I understand why the Germans followed him. But you have to be realistic about what happened.

In the following year, 1935, he began targeting at German-Jews and other minorities, putting them in concentration camps.

The Jews were targeted, not just because of religion, but for political and economic reasons. A lot of Jews became wealthy through professions and trades. They robbed Jews of their properties and wealth, through mass confiscation. That bolstered their coffers immensely.

By removing civil rights in Germany, he could do what he like to minorities (especially the Jews and Romani and anyone who disabled or gay), and that include turning concentration camp into death camp.

Yes, Hitler did use Jews as scapegoats, but it is not to elevate Christianity, as much as elevating his own power.

 

[godnotgod]

Nah, that's passion, the dedication to do what you think is best, that's not religion.

I never made any allusion to any such 'dedication to do what is best'; what I said was that "the religion part is the work that one does toward the goal of the experience.", that is to say "the experience of spiritual awakening". Do you understand the difference between what you said and what I said?

Religion : the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Sure, that is one definition of 'religion'. Another is:

"a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance."

Where is this god in Buddhism?

Zen Is a Religion

Rev. Master Jiyu-Kennett*

I am sure you’ve noticed by now that I’ve been talking about Zen as a religion, and yet some of you may have heard that all of Buddhism, and especially Zen, is atheistic. It is not. You’ve heard this due to the fact that the Christian missionaries who brought back the Scriptures from the Far East either did not know of, or deliberately steered clear of, one particular Scripture spoken by the Buddha. In the Udana Scripture He says very clearly, “O monks, there is an Unborn, Undying, Unchanging, Uncreated.”1 This is what He found in meditation and which gave Him His enlightenment. In other words, He found That Which Is. What the Christians call “God” and Mohammedans call “Allah”, the Buddhists call variably: That Which Is, the Lord of the House, the Cosmic Buddha, the Eternal, Amida Buddha, the Immaculacy of Emptiness, Vairocana Buddha, the Unborn, etc.2 The terms we use for It don’t really matter: they’re just labels, just concepts.

*Soto Zen Master

I think a Buddhist Zen Master's assessment as to whether Zen or Buddhism are religions carries far more weight than your anemic and narrow view.

Rest of article here:

Dharma Articles - Zen is a Religion

 

[godnotgod]

You do realise it was more than religion and more than fear that they followed Hitler. You need to understand the circumstances as to why the Germans followed him.

After World War I, a new form of government developed, as a republic. But the aftermath of the war, Germany was crippled by very high unemployment and economic depression (in 1922). It got even worse when Great Depression hit the US and European markets, in 1929.

Hitler's policies brought them out of the depression, rebuilding Germany. The nazi won in 1932, by 1934 this rebuilding programme cause the unemployment dropped and wages to rise.

I am not saying that I like Hitler or Nazi Germany, but I understand why the Germans followed him. But you have to be realistic about what happened.

In the following year, 1935, he began targeting at German-Jews and other minorities, putting them in concentration camps.

The Jews were targeted, not just because of religion, but for political and economic reasons. A lot of Jews became wealthy through professions and trades. They robbed Jews of their properties and wealth, through mass confiscation. That bolstered their coffers immensely.

By removing civil rights in Germany, he could do what he like to minorities (especially the Jews and Romani and anyone who disabled or gay), and that include turning concentration camp into death camp.

Yes, Hitler did use Jews as scapegoats, but it is not to elevate Christianity, as much as elevating his own power.

gnostic, you are completely missing the point of the discussion, which is that, like Christians who believe in the myth of Jesus as created by St. Paul, the German people also believed in the myth of German racial superiority vis a vis what they considered to be Jewish racial inferiority. I was just trying to point out to Christine that great numbers of people can fall into this trap of delusion. IOW, just because some 2.2 billion people worldwide are Christians is not necessarily an indication that they are 'right'.

 

[gnostic]

gnostic, you are completely missing the point of the discussion, which is that, like Christians who believe in the myth of Jesus as created by St. Paul, the German people also believed in the myth of German racial superiority vis a vis what they considered to be Jewish racial inferiority. I was just trying to point out to Christine that great numbers of people can fall into this trap of delusion. IOW, just because some 2.2 billion people worldwide are Christians is not necessarily an indication that they are 'right'.

I have never said that Christians were right.

What I said that Germans were following Hitler, had nothing to do with Christianity, and more to do with politics and economy of Germany.

That the Germans targeted minorities within Germany was not untypical of that time. Just about every nation's did the same thing, including the US.

At that time black Americans still couldn't vote, and they were segregated in the communities, because racial discrimination were still accepted in the society.

And during the 1947 to 1956, the McCarthy Era where people were discriminated, persecuted, and even arrested and convicted American citizens for being communist sympathisers, for holding unorthodox views. Being atheists in the 50s is like being communists to the authorities, even though they were never communists.

Australia went through a similar phase during the 50s, 60s and even part of the early 70s, known as the White Australia Policy. My father came to Australia from Hong Kong in the early 50s, and couldn't get citizenship until 1974.

Targeting minority groups still happen today, and you will find that it has happened repeatedly in any country.