A Universe from Nothing?

[Thief]

Knowledge is an obstacle to realization. Realization occurs when the mind is completely empty. Knowledge is acquired via thinking about what might be; Realization happens via seeing what is. Knowledge is about acquisition of data and facts which lead up to knowledge; Realization is about letting go all notion about reality until all is clear. It is a complete transformation of consciousness. Let's not belittle the experience by mincing it up and putting it out to dry.



No one understands why the atom is mostly empty space, or even how this can even be.

The nature of reality is not understood via knowledge. No scientist understands the nature of reality. They don't even understand why the facts and data they have accumulated are the way they are. All they know is their characteristics and how they behave so that they can then make future predictions. Knowledge of the mechanics of the universe is not an understanding of the nature of reality. If you think this is incorrect, then show me what the nature of reality is that science has come to know.

no one understands?
and your 'realization' came by what line of thought?
the one you just posted?

I suppose you could now argue.....you didn't really think about it
and therefore have no realization.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

What exactly is realization of truth vs knowledge? Having knowledge is realization. Having this basic understanding of science people are able to understand the basics on the nature of reality, that our particles never really touch and we are mostly empty space. That is very profound knowledge as is just the basic understanding of QM.

No, having profound knowledge is not realization....the operative root in the word realization is 'real'....meaning it is not a proxy representation of the real such as conceptual knowledge... To have extensive knowledge about the universe is one thing...to realize the universe is another....in the first case the mind is operating in the dualistic mode...a knower of conceptual indirect knowledge...in the latter the mind is one with the cosmic mind, and enlightenment is realized...the experiencer and experience become one...no concepts arise and hence it can never be described...

 

[godnotgod]

no one understands?
and your 'realization' came by what line of thought?
the one you just posted?

I suppose you could now argue.....you didn't really think about it
and therefore have no realization.

The consciousness which sees is always present before thinking occurs.

When I post, I am using the thinking mind, but I KNOW I am using the thinking mind, and that knowing is consciousness, the directing force.

The spiritual experience of Realization is always beyond reason and thought. You do not think yourself to Enlightenment, because Enlightenment is already the case. Enlightenment is just a matter of realization that it already exists.

 

[godnotgod]

No, having profound knowledge is not realization....the operative root in the word realization is 'real'....meaning it is not a proxy representation of the real such as conceptual knowledge... To have extensive knowledge about the universe is one thing...to realize the universe is another....in the first case the mind is operating in the dualistic mode...a knower of conceptual indirect knowledge...in the latter the mind is one with the cosmic mind, and enlightenment is realized...the experiencer and experience become one...no concepts arise and hence it can never be described...

So would you agree with 'the mind is one with the cosmic mind' as being 'Cosmic Consciousness'?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So would you agree with 'the mind is one with the cosmic mind' as being 'Cosmic Consciousness'?

Of course...it is just another label for the same Universal Mind......Christ Consciousness, One Mind, Cosmic Mind, Divine Mind, God Consciousness, Mind of God, Buddha Mind, etc., etc.,.....a rose by any other name would smell as sweet...

 

[Thief]

but I KNOW I am

The spiritual experience of Realization is always beyond reason and thought. You do not think yourself to Enlightenment, because Enlightenment is already the case. Enlightenment is just a matter of realization that it already exists.

in previous post you stated knowledge gets in the way of realization

therefore, you do not know

and your above post indicates we are born perfect and this life is a detriment

therefore, nothing to be gained by your living.....

sounds like double (dual) mindedness

 

[godnotgod]

in previous post you stated knowledge gets in the way of realization

therefore, you do not know

The logic does not follow. Why would you say that?

and you above post indicates we are born perfect and this life is a detriment

therefore, nothing to be gained by your living.....

sounds like double (dual) mindedness

There is nothing to be gained by living anyay, other than life itself. But if you get in touch with realization, living this life is much more fulfilling than living in Identification.

 

[Thief]

The logic does not follow. Why would you say that?



There is nothing to be gained by living anyay, other than life itself. But if you get in touch with realization, living this life is much more fulfilling than living in Identification.

can't follow the line of thought?


ooops

 

[godnotgod]

can't follow the line of thought?


ooops

If knowledge gets in the way of realization, it can be transcended to eliminate the problem.

 

[`mud]

Geeeeeeeez......Life is Stuff.....Stuff goes on....
We don't.....
Memories are all we leave.....
to all of the others....
Even one's cognizance's stop....
and one's gnosis expires also...
but.....stuff goes on.
~
'mud
.

 

[Thief]

If knowledge gets in the way of realization, it can be transcended to eliminate the problem.

circumvent the truth?

 

[YmirGF]

circumvent the truth?

Talk about making denial an art-form, eh?

 

[Thief]

The consciousness which sees is always present before thinking occurs.

When I post, I am using the thinking mind, but I KNOW I am using the thinking mind, and that knowing is consciousness, the directing force.

The spiritual experience of Realization is always beyond reason and thought. You do not think yourself to Enlightenment, because Enlightenment is already the case. Enlightenment is just a matter of realization that it already exists.

so now you mean to say?.....you thought about it.....realized what you wanted to post
and expressed your thinking with intention

 

[`mud]

 

[Thief]

View attachment 13629

that is soooooo cool

clear as mud....

 

[godnotgod]

so now you mean to say?.....you thought about it.....realized what you wanted to post
and expressed your thinking with intention

Seeing comes first, then thinking.

To realize something is not the same as the spiritual experience of Realization.

 

[godnotgod]

circumvent the truth?

No. Transcend the sphere of factual knowledge to get to the Source of all knowledge.

 

[godnotgod]

Geeeeeeeez......Life is Stuff.....Stuff goes on....
We don't.....
Memories are all we leave.....
to all of the others....
Even one's cognizance's stop....
and one's gnosis expires also...
but.....stuff goes on.
~
'mud
.

What expires is the attachment to gnosis, memories, and cognizance known as 'I'.

There is no experiencer of the experience; there is only the experience itself, and you (ie' your consciousness) is that experience.

Please understand I am using 'your' as a matter of convention.

 

[godnotgod]

Talk about making denial an art-form, eh?

Talk about circumvention, you didn't address the last post in our 'conversation'.

At least your erroneous logic is consistent.

 

[YmirGF]

Talk about circumvention, you didn't address the last post in our 'conversation'.

At least your erroneous logic is consistent.

I did not find it worthy of a reply.