A Universe from Nothing?

[Ben Dhyan]

And how do you know that ?.

Well we agree that nothing does not exist...and presumably you agree with me that the universe does exist.

Either the universe that we agree exists has always existed or else it had a beginning in nothing which nothing we both agree could never exist...

Is it not logical to conclude the essence of universal existence is eternal?

 

[psychoslice]

Well we agree that nothing does not exist...and presumably you agree with me that the universe does exist.

Either the universe that we agree exists has always existed or else it had a beginning in nothing which nothing we both agree could never exist...

Is it not logical to conclude the essence of universal existence is eternal?

Yes the universe has always existed, we are just like Johnny come lately.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yes the universe has always existed, we are just like Johnny come lately.

Yes...we can humbly admit that as apparent noobs...but since we are just another aspect of universal existence....the essence that constitutes us is eternal.....awesome to reflect on...

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes the universe has always existed, we are just like Johnny come lately.

No, at present, we do not know what happened before 'inflation'. It is all speculation before that. We may, however, find that out in time.

 

[james bond]

No, at present, we do not know what happened before 'inflation'. It is all speculation before that. We may, however, find that out in time.

We do know, or at least some of us and you are correct to say it is based on faith. However, if you do not know and to say that we will find out in time before inflation, then it is based on faith, too.

 

[Skwim]

Jeez Louise, you're wrong again. Look up Sir Francis Bacon and the scientific method. Before that was Rene Descartes. When did evolution start?

And just how is this relevant to your statement that "Natural selection is part of creation science as explained by Alfred Russel Wallace"? IT ISN'T.

As for Wallace, it matters how he lived and died. He was related to Braveheart and outlived Darwin. He died probably of old age while Darwin ate feces and died ha ha. Actually I think he was bitten by a bug while out studying nature and it eventually got to him a couple of decades later..

Another irrelevancy.


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[Aupmanyav]

However, if you do not know and to say that we will find out in time before inflation, then it is based on faith, too.

If you notice, I used the word 'may'. Yes, 'may be' or 'may be not'. I am not making a prophecy eitherway.

 

[james bond]

If you notice, I used the word 'may'. Yes, 'may be' or 'may be not'. I am not making a prophecy.

I'm not saying you made a prophecy, but whether we "may be" or "may be not" find out this information is still based on faith. This is because you will not consider a creator. What if the creator is not God, then does that still fall within your criteria? However, if the answer is God, which you may be or may be not find out after leaving this life, then would you say you were mistaken?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I'm not saying you made a prophecy, but whether we "may be" or "may be not" find out this information is still based on faith. This is because you will not consider a creator. What if the creator is not God, then does that still fall within your criteria? However, if the answer is God, which you may be or may be not find out after leaving this life, then would you say you were mistaken?

"may be" or "may be not" IMHO, is completely neutral. Of course, hardly possible in my life-time - but that does not worry me. Actually I do not even believe in a creation in addition to not believing in existence of God. IMHO, the inherent perturbations in the ocean of energy that our universe is, give us what we perceive. I reject many things, God, soul, creation, birth, death, heaven, hell, etc.

"Primordial fluctuations are density variations in the early universe which are considered the seeds of all structure in the universe. Currently, the most widely accepted explanation for their origin is in the context of cosmic inflation. According to the inflationary paradigm, the exponential growth of the scale factor during inflation caused quantum fluctuations of the inflaton field to be stretched to macroscopic scales, and, upon leaving the horizon, to "freeze in". At the later stages of radiation- and matter-domination, these fluctuations re-entered the horizon, and thus set the initial conditions for structure formation." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primordial_fluctuations

 

[james bond]

"may be" or "may be not" IMHO, is completely neutral. Of course, hardly possible in my life-time - but that does not worry me. Actually I do not even believe in a creation in addition to not believing in existence of God. IMHO, the inherent perturbations in the ocean of energy that our universe is, give us what we perceive. I reject many things, God, soul, creation, birth, death, heaven, hell, etc.

"Primordial fluctuations are density variations in the early universe which are considered the seeds of all structure in the universe. Currently, the most widely accepted explanation for their origin is in the context of cosmic inflation. According to the inflationary paradigm, the exponential growth of the scale factor during inflation caused quantum fluctuations of the inflaton field to be stretched to macroscopic scales, and, upon leaving the horizon, to "freeze in". At the later stages of radiation- and matter-domination, these fluctuations re-entered the horizon, and thus set the initial conditions for structure formation." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primordial_fluctuations

Just reading your first paragraph, I have to ask do you reject science, too?

Then reading your second paragraph, what are these primordial fluctuations and density variations in the early universe based on? Is it religion? If it is religion, then I was raised to think of it as philosophy and there is a faith aspect to it -- a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Just reading your first paragraph, I have to ask do you reject science, too?
Then reading your second paragraph, what are these primordial fluctuations and density variations in the early universe based on? Is it religion? If it is religion, then I was raised to think of it as philosophy and there is a faith aspect to it -- a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.

My views basically depend on science. I do not see a line dividing religion and science. Primordial fluctuations are not philosophy, it is a developing theory. There is no question of faith in it. It is mathematical derivation, experiments, analysis of results. A few links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_cosmology, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_formation, https://www.google.co.in/webhp?sour...-8#newwindow=1&q=quantum+cosmic+perturbations

 

[McBell]

We do know, or at least some of us and you are correct to say it is based on faith.

that you do not see a contradiction in that there sentence reveals quite a lot.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I'm not sure if I can post a poll on here but who here believes that the universe originated from nothing? As some of the major scientific theories from the 20th century claimed or was there an originator of some sort? Doesn't have to be God necessarily in your opinion. Who believes the universe has no beginning? I'm just curious as to what you guys believe with regard to this topic and what the basis of your belief would be?

If the universe was at one time non existent how then could it have created itself as it would not have been in existence to do so?

A power or force outside existence that had never been born and always existed would be the only power to be able to bring existence Into existence because if we are saying time was not in existence to create itself then A Timeless or Eternal Being created it. Also, intelligence is found in existence and it did not create itself.

The intelligence and complexity of the human body for example could not have come about by a random act. It's cells are organised and it contains DNA and gene mapping which is all highly intelligent. Composition and decomposition, a process which occurs whether we are here or not is perpetuated by another force not us. We call it God but know very little about God except what Prophets have said.

Only an All Knowing and All Intelligent Existence could have initiated existence not a random occurrence.

 

[james bond]

My views basically depend on science. I do not see a line dividing religion and science. Primordial fluctuations are not philosophy, it is a developing theory. There is no question of faith in it. It is mathematical derivation, experiments, analysis of results. A few links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_cosmology, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_formation, https://www.google.co.in/webhp?sour...-8#newwindow=1&q=quantum+cosmic+perturbations

This is where we diverge. I do no think cosmology as science. It's philosophy.

 

[james bond]

that you do not see a contradiction in that there sentence reveals quite a lot.

Hello, Mestemia. I do not think you know.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well we agree that nothing does not exist...and presumably you agree with me that the universe does exist.
Either the universe that we agree exists has always existed or else it had a beginning in nothing which nothing we both agree could never exist...
Is it not logical to conclude the essence of universal existence is eternal?

According to Scripture the universe did Not come from nothing.
God supplied His great 'power and strength', His dynamic energy, to create the material realm.
- Isaiah 40:26; Jeremiah 10:12; Jeremiah 27:7; Jeremiah 32:17; Psalms 104:30

So, without God's abundant high-density dynamic energy the universe would Not be eternal.
We see on Earth that things are perishable. We also see how the Earth renews itself.
As we change garments to refresh oneself, the Earth refreshes itself.
God created the Earth to abide forever - Ecclesiastes 1:4 B - meaning God will always protect Earth, and grant everlasting physical life on Earth starting with Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth when even enemy death will be No more on Earth.
- 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[McBell]

Hello, Mestemia. I do not think you know.

Ah, so you do see the contradiction?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

We do know, or at least some of us and you are correct to say it is based on faith. However, if you do not know and to say that we will find out in time before inflation, then it is based on faith, too.

However, there is a difference between credulity (blind faith) and faith based on reasoning on the Scriptures.
Such as: God supplied the abundantly needed dynamic energy ( power and strength ) to create the material visible realm of existence.
- Isaiah 40:26; Jeremiah 10:12; Jeremiah 27:5; Jeremiah 32:17; Psalms 104:30; Job 26:7

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But we do know.....the universe never had a beginning...it is eternal, simple logic...only the true believers from both sides ignore it....there is no nothing from which it would have had to have come from..
It is also backed up by the facts that science admits that nothing can be added to the universe, nor can anything be removed....therefore it is simple logic that the essence, underlying the universal forms that do have beginnings and endings, is eternal...

According to Genesis 1:1 the universe ( heavens ) had a start or a beginning.
God provided the needed dynamic energy (power and strength) to create the universe, so it was from God's power that the universe came.
- Isaiah 40:26; Jeremiah 10:2; 27:5; 32:17; Psalms 104:30

 

[Ben Dhyan]

According to Genesis 1:1 the universe ( heavens ) had a start or a beginning.
God provided the needed dynamic energy (power and strength) to create the universe, so it was from God's power that the universe came.
- Isaiah 40:26; Jeremiah 10:2; 27:5; 32:17; Psalms 104:30

.Of course all cosmic forms have beginnings....on earth and in the heavens....from man to stars ...and while all these are temporary and finite....the universe itself is eternal and infinite. The universe is defined as being ONE....it contains all there is... the apparent manifestation and the unseen unmanifest..