A Universe from Nothing?

[godnotgod]

Gnostic operates the same way with me, as well as of course Norman..err.. Ricky....I would not use the word clever...deplorable is how I would describe their behavior.. One does not have to be astute to see through it...

Right, and however their behavior can be described, it certainly is, above all, pretty shabby.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

There was nothing there about the big bang...so when I answered the question asked...you then try to make it about whether I believe in the big bang...an obvious obfuscation to avoid the conclusion you did not like, yet could not overtly disagree with..so shallow....

Again, cut the passive-aggressive nonsense and respond to what I posted.

The big bang is critical to the discussion, which I why I asked you to clarify your position on it. It is a perfectly reasonable request, so here it is again:

Are you arguing that our universe DIDN'T start with the big bang? And if so, what evidence do you have for this position? I mean actual evidence, not your religious beliefs. I don't think Fred Hoyle's steady state view is accepted now, so what are you actually referring to?

Or are you arguing that our universe DID start with the big bang, but there must have been something "before" it? In which case we are back to the invalidity of "before", since the fabric of our universe is space-time, and time only came into existence when our universe was created.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Your reply is illogical and contradictory:

If, as you admit, that "our universe (space-time ) began with the big bang", then there cannot have been a 'before' the BB, as 'before' necessitates Time for that to have been a reality. But the real reason Space-Time did not exist is because they are conceptual, and arise only with man's rational mind. This is what most do not understand: that there is actually no Space-Time, even today. Once these conceptual overlays are removed (along with Causation), we are then able to see The Universe as it actually is, as The Beginingless Absolute that it actually is, outside of Time, Space, and Causation, as Vivekenanda tells us:

"The Universe is [none other than] The Absolute, as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation"

New-age nonsense. The fabric of the cosmos is referred to as "space-time" for very good reason. There is the arrow of time, entropy, atomic clocks, etc. As usual you are muddling in pseudo-science with Hindu beliefs and coming up with a nonsensical tripe.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Right, and however their behavior can be described, it certainly is, above all, pretty shabby.

Pure projection and gross hypocrisy. YOU are the one who regularly insults and patronises other contributors. You are so egotistical that you cannot help but attack anyone who challenges your new-age dogma.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

YOU LIKE TO COME IN HERE AND HUFF AND PUFF AND POINT FINGERS, AND WHEN I RESPOND WITH ANSWERS, YOU JUST DISAPPEAR. I ANSWERED ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS, SO WHERE ARE YOUR RESPONSES? I BET YOU HAVE NONE, SO YOU CONVENIENTLY VANISH, HUH?

You never provide clear answers to anything, it is all smoke and mirrors, continual evasion and moving of the goalposts. Most contributors here have simply given up responding to your BS, devious tricks and insults, they realise it is pointless because you are on an ego-trip and only here to preach your Chopra-inspired new-age dogma.

I notice you never responded to my point about the Heart Sutra being incompatible with Cosmic Consciousness, yet another revealing evasion on your part.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Again, cut the passive-aggressive nonsense and respond to what I posted.

The big bang is critical to the discussion, which I why I asked you to clarify your position on it. It is a perfectly reasonable request, so here it is again:

Are you arguing that our universe DIDN'T start with the big bang? And if so, what evidence do you have for this position? I mean actual evidence, not your religious beliefs. I don't think Fred Hoyle's steady state view is accepted now, so what are you actually referring to?

Or are you arguing that our universe DID start with the big bang, but there must have been something "before" it? In which case we are back to the invalidity of "before", since the fabric of our universe is space-time, and time only came into existence when our universe was created.

I have only said that the universe is eternal....consistently...and persistently.....I have no interest at this time at looking into the details of the eternal behavior of the universal manifestation....only that their was no beginning...no something from nothing...

But more importantly...I am awake to your never ending attempts at obfuscation....I am awaiting your response to the question of your claim that I confused mass with matter....

 

[Psychedelic Shop]

I'm not sure if I can post a poll on here but who here believes that the universe originated from nothing? As some of the major scientific theories from the 20th century claimed or was there an originator of some sort? Doesn't have to be God necessarily in your opinion. Who believes the universe has no beginning? I'm just curious as to what you guys believe with regard to this topic and what the basis of your belief would be?

Absolute infinite. Beginningless. There always was and will be "something." Even the big bang has to start with something or there would have been nothing to bang.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Quantum Physics has established that all 'material' reality is made of energy fluctuations in the Quantum and Higgs Fields, and that what you think is a 'material' world is actually a 'superposition of possibilities'.

Your ego is showing again. Stop shouting, stop preaching, and cut the histrionics.

Even if we accept this interpretation of quantum mechanics, how does it support your claim that matter is a creation of consciousness? How does it support your claim that the big bang was an event in consciousness? If you were being honest you would admit that it doesn't.

If you going to make these claims you need to justify them, join the dots, provide a coherent argument. I don't think you can, because actually what you are preaching are new-age religious beliefs, a sort of pseudo-Hinduism. Like Chopra you muddle in some quantum mechanics in an attempt to sound more credible, but it simply doesn't work, it is all smoke and mirrors, false equivalences and nonsensical conclusions.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I have only said that the universe is eternal....consistently...and persistently.....I have no interest at this time at looking into the details of the eternal behavior of the universal manifestation....only that their was no beginning...no something from nothing...

As I thought, you are attached to your theistic beliefs and don't want them challenged. OK.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

As I thought, you are attached to your theistic beliefs and don't want them challenged. OK.

I am awake to your never ending attempts at obfuscation....I am awaiting your response to the question of your claim that I confused mass with matter....

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I am awake to your never ending attempts at obfuscation....I am awaiting your response to the question of your claim that I confused mass with matter....

Nonsense, YOU are the one who is obfuscating, you simply can't cope when your theistic beliefs are challenged.

Meanwhile you arrogantly refuse to accept that you made an incoherent statement. Tiresome and juvenile behaviour on your part.

 

[`mud]

There are stars and their planets,
clustering in their galaxies,
with all their flotsam of debris,
within our universe,
apart from all the others,
that composes the Cosmos,
and all that is contained within.
~
A lot of people get the universes,
and the Cosmos, confused.
One can't see the other universes yet,
but soon we will !
~
All universes had a beginning,
the Cosmos doesn't !
~
No true cause,
but, what an effect !

 

[godnotgod]

The fabric of the cosmos is referred to as "space-time" for very good reason. There is the arrow of time, entropy, atomic clocks, etc.

No, you're wrong. If you ask the people at the atomic clock facility in Colorado, they will tell you directly that the atomic clock is only a measuring device, but does not measure Time. 'Time' is only a concept created due to the movement of phenomena in 'Space', which also is a concept derived from the relationship of phenomena to each other. Without 'phenomena in movement', there is no Space-Time.

Again, what I said:

"If, as you admit, that "our universe (space-time ) began with the big bang", then there cannot have been a 'before' the BB, as 'before' necessitates Time for that to have been a reality. But the real reason Space-Time did not exist is because they are conceptual, and arise only with man's rational mind."

This is logic, not pseudo-science. So what is your response?

 

[godnotgod]

Pure projection and gross hypocrisy. YOU are the one who regularly insults and patronises other contributors. You are so egotistical that you cannot help but attack anyone who challenges your new-age dogma.

That would be interesting if I had a 'new age dogma' to challenge, but no, I attack the illogical and/or dualistic nature of their arguments, such as yours, for example.

 

[godnotgod]

I notice you never responded to my point about the Heart Sutra being incompatible with Cosmic Consciousness, yet another revealing evasion on your part.

It's a ridiculous question in light of what the Heart Sutra reveals about the state of mind of the author of the sutra.

 

[godnotgod]

Even if we accept this interpretation of quantum mechanics, how does it support your claim that matter is a creation of consciousness? How does it support your claim that the big bang was an event in consciousness? If you were being honest you would admit that it doesn't.

If you going to make these claims you need to justify them, join the dots, provide a coherent argument.

What I posted:

"Quantum Physics has established that all 'material' reality is made of energy fluctuations in the Quantum and Higgs Fields, and that what you think is a 'material' world is actually a 'superposition of possibilities'."

is the first part of the answer.

 

[godnotgod]

You never provide clear answers to anything, it is all smoke and mirrors, continual evasion and moving of the goalposts. Most contributors here have simply given up responding to your BS, devious tricks and insults, they realise it is pointless because you are on an ego-trip and only here to preach your Chopra-inspired new-age dogma.
.

Why are you defending gnosis? Is he not capable of his own self-defense? Why is he hiding?

 

[godnotgod]

Absolute infinite. Beginningless. There always was and will be "something." Even the big bang has to start with something or there would have been nothing to bang.

Actually, we now know there was 'nothing to bang', since Quantum Physics has now revealed to us that all of the mass of the atom is virtual in nature. The 'something' you refer to is no material thing at all. What we see as a material universe is the result of pure consciousness, Pure Abstract Intelligence, manifesting itself as The Universe.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Nonsense, YOU are the one who is obfuscating, you simply can't cope when your theistic beliefs are challenged.

Meanwhile you arrogantly refuse to accept that you made an incoherent statement. Tiresome and juvenile behaviour on your part.

You are still trolling and misdirecting....you originally claimed I confused mass with energy.....show us where I used the words 'mass' and 'matter' in a way that is inconsistent with scientific definitions or contrary to the law of conservation?

I remind you that the relevant post where you claim I am supposed to have confused mass with matter is where gnostic's post #5995 quoted these words of mine...

"Matter is made of energy......only the forms are created and destroyed...like stars and planets and humans...the underlying universal mass of energy and matter does not change.."

Now without any further obfuscation....point out the offending statement?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

There are stars and their planets,
clustering in their galaxies,
with all their flotsam of debris,
within our universe,
apart from all the others,
that composes the Cosmos,
and all that is contained within.
~
A lot of people get the universes,
and the Cosmos, confused.
One can't see the other universes yet,
but soon we will !
~
All universes had a beginning,
the Cosmos doesn't !
~
No true cause,
but, what an effect !

The universe is the cosmos.....the cosmos is the ordered universe.... The prefix 'uni' means one..and there is only one..When people talk of a multiverse...it merely means that those people who believed in a finite universe are mistaken...the universe contains many such apparent finite 'universes'...'universes' is an oxymoron..