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A woman's rage

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It is in the article. If the author didn't want to involve politics the author should have limited the subjects. Hence I commented on projection and the hysteria seen during Ford/Kav hearing and it's results. Believe Ford became Believe Women thus a projection from individual to collective or group. Heck now Dems are going use the Ford/Kav hearing for mid-terms by feeding off the hysteria and projection for votes.
All the problems with the linked piece have been thoroughly addressed.
Let's set that aside now.
The the issue of the OP (as I understand it) is that women want men to
understand their perspective better. The best way I've seen to do that
is for individuals to relate their personal experiences. Those are quite
accessable.
I see a common problem that some who want to be understood will
express this in a manner that leaves others addressing a perceived
personal or general accusation of fault or inadequacy. We end up
talking past each other.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
All the problems with the linked piece have been thoroughly addressed.
Let's set that aside now.
The the issue of the OP (as I understand it) is that women want men to
understand their perspective better. The best way I've seen to do that
is for individuals to relate their personal experiences. Those are quite
accessable.
I see a common problem that some who want to be understood will
express this in a manner that leaves others addressing a perceived
personal or general accusation of fault or inadequacy. We end up
talking past each other.

The author of the article couldn't avoid politics including his subjective view of Ford/Kav hearings regarding abuse and anger. I addressed the political side from a different view one in which sees the mob like hysteria and projection. All I did was point out the author's political bias and ideology.

It is not talking passed each other. It is one user ignoring what is in the article and what actually has happened as it does not fit the narrative.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I think you're quibbling to avoid admitting a mistake.
My advice to avoid broadly brushing is sound.
Being kicked in the nuts is something all men can understand. That was the point, in flipping sexual abuse around into a way that all men, regardless, can understand.
Not once did it imply guilt or lack of understanding against all men.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Seems like women have the upper hand. Example. A woman goes out with a man on Monday. He takes her to an expensive restaurant and then they go to a hotel and she willingly has sex with him. On Tuesday she goes out with a different man. They go to a nice restaurant and then to his home and she willingly has sex with him. On Wednesday she goes out with a third man. He buys her a burger and she willingly has sex in the back of his car. Many years later she thinks back and says that cheep so-and-so only bought me a burger. I didn't really want to have sex with him. I will ruin his life by saying he raped me. How can a man defend himself from this? A woman can change her mind years after something happens and the man can do nothing.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Being kicked in the nuts is something all men can understand.
I say that rape would be far far worse.
I've no experience from which to reason,
but it appears obvious.
(Yes, the old argument of obviousness.)

OK, I found proof that unlike rape, getting hit in the nuts is merely funny.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Seems like women have the upper hand. Example. A woman goes out with a man on Monday. He takes her to an expensive restaurant and then they go to a hotel and she willingly has sex with him. On Tuesday she goes out with a different man. They go to a nice restaurant and then to his home and she willingly has sex with him. On Wednesday she goes out with a third man. He buys her a burger and she willingly has sex in the back of his car. Many years later she thinks back and says that cheep so-and-so only bought me a burger. I didn't really want to have sex with him. I will ruin his life by saying he raped me. How can a man defend himself from this? A woman can change her mind years after something happens and the man can do nothing.
Do you think that this actually happens in the real world? Though false rape charges do occur they are the very rare exception and not the rule.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I say that rape would be far far worse.
No doubt. But men aren't often raped. Most men don't have endure sexual harassment. In any topic, those who lack experience tend to not understand. So the OP linked to an author who put things in a way that is pretty clear to men, whether they get the problems with sexual harassment.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Seems like women have the upper hand. Example. A woman goes out with a man on Monday. He takes her to an expensive restaurant and then they go to a hotel and she willingly has sex with him. On Tuesday she goes out with a different man. They go to a nice restaurant and then to his home and she willingly has sex with him. On Wednesday she goes out with a third man. He buys her a burger and she willingly has sex in the back of his car. Many years later she thinks back and says that cheep so-and-so only bought me a burger. I didn't really want to have sex with him. I will ruin his life by saying he raped me. How can a man defend himself from this? A woman can change her mind years after something happens and the man can do nothing.
Yeah, except that isn't happening. False accusations of rape are rare. Rape, however, is not.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
No doubt. But men aren't often raped.

It occurs to me that some men are raped.
And some women aren't
But men who have been raped don't understand, & women who haven't do understand.
So I don't think frequencies applied to groups define the individuals.
Most men don't have endure sexual harassment.

What if we have endured it...are we still clueless?
In any topic, those who lack experience tend to not understand. So the OP linked to an author who put things in a way that is pretty clear to men, whether they get the problems with sexual harassment.
This is starting to sound like identity politics washing away the individual.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Here's a pretty good take on the "oh my god the poor men" attitude.
If that is for me (following my post), I'm not doing videos this evening.
But if the title is to mock any man's experience,
or to say we cannot understand, I'd pass anyway.
Once again, we are all individuals.

Ya know, some feminists say that you cannot know either,
since you weren't born a woman. Should your experience
be dismissed because of their perception of gender tribalism?
Nah.
People decry the social evil of individualism, but I recognize
that you are the sum of who you are & what you've been thru.
Identity politics is irrelevant, or even harmful.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
So I don't think frequencies applied to groups define the individuals.
It doesn't. But that doesn't erase the fact that certain demographs have varying frequencies of different experiences. Not everyone who is obese will get cancer, diabetes, or heart disease, but the obese as a group are, factually, at a higher risk for those diseases. Just as not all women are sexually abused, but women as a whole are more likely to be sexually assaulted than men. Not all men commit sexual assault, but men make up the overwhelming majority of sex crime offenders.
What if we have endured it...are we still clueless?
No one has implied otherwise. That even goes directly against what I said, which is that those who lack experience often do not understand.
This is starting to sound like identity politics washing away the individual.
There is nothing about "identity politics" in it. It's nothing more than putting things in a way that men can understand, given men aren't usually the victims of sexual assault.
But if the title is to mock any man's experience,
or to say we cannot understand, I'd pass anyway.
That's not at all what it is. Rather how the dialogue is being shifted to trying to portray men as the victims of the Me Too movement, because of a fear being whipped up that has lead many men to believe they are living under a great threat of false accusations of sexual assault, and once it happens it's over. He wasn't mocking any man's experience, but he was mocking Trump saying it's a "scary time to be a man."
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Ya know, some feminists say that you cannot know either,
since you weren't born a woman. Should your experience
be dismissed because of their perception of gender tribalism?
And the feminists who say that are typically the types who do hold all men accountable, and would dismiss my own experiences as "male privilege."
The OP is holding no one guilty, is not pointing the finger, or even dismissing anyone's experience.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
That's not at all what it is. Rather how the dialogue is being shifted to trying to portray men as the victims of the Me Too movement, because of a fear being whipped up that has lead many men to believe they are living under a great threat of false accusations of sexual assault, and once it happens it's over. He wasn't mocking any man's experience, but he was mocking Trump saying it's a "scary time to be a man."
I don't find Trump's commentary to be relevant to men in general.
He no more paints a general picture than would Tawana Brawley.

What percentage of women have been raped (USA)?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I agree that, within the vast majority, men do understand other men, for sure.

However - the OP doesn't imply that men don't understand other men, I don't think. It is all about whether or not men understand the actual perspective of women. And some of us try - but we are only ever able to up to a certain point because we aren't women, of course. So it is quite impossible to understand fully. Just as it is impossible for women to fully understand what it is like to be a man. And the only people who have had a taste of both experiences have had completely different experiences than your average man/woman altogether. And there's not a single way around that.

So, in the end, who do you think is the foremost authority on what it's like to be a woman? Isn't it women? Therefore, if women strongly find this analogy to be helpful in explaining their collective position, who are we men to say the analogy doesn't hold?


I agree that women understand better what it's like to be a woman, but this isn't really about that. It's about women and their perspective about men and the potential danger of men as violent rapists. The article linked by the OP suggested that "men would understand better" if they were kicked in the groin, but it also elaborated further by suggesting that it's also a matter of trying to size up situations. So, to carry through with the same analogy, a man would need to similarly size up who might kick them in the groin or not.

But in reality, men do have to size up other men in situations where there might be potential for confrontation or possibly violence. It may be an innate survival skill coupled with hard experience and a learned ability at situational awareness. Those of us who grew up in rough neighborhoods understand this and gain a certain street sense in the process. Men do understand violence and abuse, as men make up the majority of perpetrators and victims in that category. So, the notion that "men don't understand" just doesn't wash.

I'll freely admit there are some aspects that I can't understand from the women's point of view, since I'm not a woman. But I do understand that this is all in the context of the recent allegations made against Kavanaugh, along with other recent events, such as Bill Cosby's conviction and the flurry of allegations coming from the #metoo movement.

This is not about "excusing rape," but it's about attempting to chastise and call out men who fail to blindly and instantly believe every accusation that they come across. "You don't believe her! You're excusing rape!"

Rape is a crime. For that reason, it's a matter for law enforcement and the justice system to handle. I've never seen or witnessed a rape in my life. I've never been in a position to prevent or stop a rape, but if I ever find myself in such a position, I would do my best to stop the crime in progress within the boundaries of the law. I think it's unreasonable to expect men to become vigilantes or form lynch mobs, since that kind of thing has tainted our country's history for a long time. It's a matter for the law.

Of course, many women seem to think that it's as simple as "well, men should just stop raping and abusing women," and I agree with that. I also think there should be world peace, global socialism, and a universal brotherhood...er...siblinghood of humanity. But "what should be" and "what is" are always going to be different.

I think the law should punish rapists to its fullest extent, but I also believe there should be justice and fairness in the legal process so that innocent people aren't locked up for crimes they didn't commit.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
And the feminists who say that are typically the types who do hold all men accountable, and would dismiss my own experiences as "male privilege."
The OP is holding no one guilty, is not pointing the finger, or even dismissing anyone's experience.
There is a persistent theme here that men need not fear false
accusations or rape itself because of the rarity of it (false though
that claim is). This sure appears to be recurring dismissal of that
fear. Men shouldn't feel that way because, as you say, they're
usually the ones committing rape. This makes it about the group,
not the individual.
I advocate that no one's concerns be ignored or minimized.
There should be no argument that the concerns of people in
one group matter, but those in the other group don't.

Some general advice....
If you want someone to understand your concerns, just relate them.
Don't tell someone their concerns are statistically irrelevant.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I don't find Trump's commentary to be relevant to men in general.
He no more paints a general picture than would Tawana Brawley.
Even before Trump, the idea of men being under threat of false rape accusations has been voiced in many places, including here. It even appears in this thread.
What percentage of women have been raped (USA)?
About 20%, according to the CDC.
 
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