A Word on Political Correctness VS Free Speech

[Mycroft]

Sometimes you hear about people complaining about political correctness, and how it's destroying free speech. So I just wanted to say:

You most certainly can:

- Insult minorities
- Insult sexualities
- Insult religions
- Insult people for their politics
- Insult people for their gender
- Insult people for a lack of mental facility.

You most certainly can do these things. In fact, your right to do so is legally protected. You have a right to free speech.


But also....


You have a moral right to be held accountable to what you say.

Political Correctness isn't there as legislation to stop you saying whatever bilge you like, political correctness is there as an opportunity to think better and speak wiser if you should choose.

But, if you wish to insult minorities, or women, homosexuals go right ahead - nobody will stop you. But people will hold you accountable, and it is right to do so.

 

[YmirGF]

The best type of insult is the one where the insulted doesn't immediately realize they have been insulted. It's a fine art, really.


That said, how far does this so-called "moral right" go and when is it not outright bullying?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I agree, M.

Plus, if you are a neutral party in an exchange, and you see a slur flung at a lower social class person, and that person speaks up against the person speaking the slur...

Consider who you're defending as a mark on your own character. You no longer become a neutral party. But you consider more valuable the right of the slur, or the right of accountability.

 

[Tumah]

I think when people are putting down PC they are referring to how it tends to cause people to ignore or gloss over negative issues in favor of not being insulting. In their view, being realistic is more important than being nice. Perhaps especially so when safety is a concern.

 

[Riverwolf]

Well said.

I will defend the legal right to insult people without the fear of being arrested.

Having the legal right to say things does NOT make those things "okay", nor does that right protect the insulter from being criticized for the things they said.

For the record, I've never seen anyone advocate making insults illegal, and would strongly disagree with anyone who would advocate such.

 

[YmirGF]

Well said.

I will defend the legal right to insult people without the fear of being arrested.

Having the legal right to say things does NOT make those things "okay", nor does that right protect the insulter from being criticized for the things they said.

For the record, I've never seen anyone advocate making insults illegal, and would strongly disagree with anyone who would advocate such.

I tend to agree and save my best insults for those who are especially deserving. Attacking minorities of any kind is pretty low brow and not something that I encourage.

 

[Riverwolf]

I tend to agree and save my best insults for those who are especially deserving. Attacking minorities of any kind is pretty low brow and not something that I encourage.

I've heard that there's a pretty neat Chrome addon that changes every instance of "politically correct" with "treating people with respect."

 

[Revoltingest]

The best type of insult is the one where the insulted doesn't immediately realize they have been insulted. It's a fine art, really.

Is that like how @4consideration would keep saying to me, "Bless your heart",
& years later I discovered what that meant?

 

[SomeRandom]

Whilst I can certainly support calling people out for insulting, well any minority. I've never actually heard the "damn PC is killing free speech" used for that particular situation. I don't think many of the "anti PC" crowd like to go around using any slur they want without consequence. Well at least I've never encountered one before.
I think it's far less black and white as this.

I have heard the railings against PC to be more akin to "why can't I say that joke about an Indian? I am freaking Indian, you ignorant ****stick!"
Or from people who are like, dude that person is a comedian. Lighten the **** up.
Or when you have Universities in the news because they're so stifling they actually have banned words. Or articles lamenting the non PC things said in Cards Against Humanity (seriously, wtf?) Or something stupid along those lines.

There is a pushback, not just from these supposed slur users, which seems awful strawman-ishly to me, but regardless. But from actual honest to god minorities against these perceived slights that no one actually cares about.

Like a white lady wearing a sari or kameez. No actual Indian gives a ****. At least no Indian with a proper grounding in their own heritage. But apparently the "white man" needs to protect us from this supposed insult and they go on the rampage to drum up controversy among our community. When really all we want to do is feed this woman and give her tips and tricks on how to wear/wash her clothing.
I remember going to a spice shop that just opened near me called Om (aum) which is a sacred symbol and sound in Hinduism. The biggest complaint that I had as a born Hindu was how expensive some of their stuff is. But I encountered one young Australian lady standing outside this shop appalled that this Indian run spice shop would have the audacity to call their shop after something so sacred. Last time I left her she was trying to get a boycott off the ground. But Aussies being Aussies just laughed this off.

This pushback against the PC crowd isn't from racist douchebags, it isn't from sexists or whatever. Though I concede they are most likely among this pushback group.
It's from people who want Political Correctness to draw a reasonable line in the sand instead of getting offended at every single thing it encounters. To the detriment of meaningful cross cultural exchange (read "cultural appropriation." Not saying cultural misappropriation doesn't exist, but come on.) I've heard the lamentations of free speech being eroded only against extreme cases of Political Correctness gone awry.
At least that's been my experience.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I've heard white people wonder aloud that if black people can call each other ******, then white people can say ****** too, in order to combat the PC police. Because equality right?

That's no strawman. I hear it far too often around here in IL.

 

[Twilight Hue]

All white folks should henceforth call each other "craka".

Joking aside, there has to be that particular line where not only the rights of free speech and expression are preserved, but the right for a person or persons to not be belittled and degraded.

While I think PC speech is out of whack more often than not, I do see the reasons as to why it came about.

Like it's one thing to talk smack at a Nazi rally held out in the boondocks, but entirely another matter If said rally is held in let's say in the heart of Queens or South Brooklyn.

You can pretty much guess at the real world outcome that some types of speech can bring about. Not by the word itself, but by the reaction it can bring which is what people try to avoid.

Finding that PC fine line is going to be a long drawn out process that only trial and error can refine to a point of reasonable equanimity. If that's even possible.

 

[Mycroft]

I think when people are putting down PC they are referring to how it tends to cause people to ignore or gloss over negative issues in favor of not being insulting. In their view, being realistic is more important than being nice. Perhaps especially so when safety is a concern.

For your consideration: http://bigthink.com/videos/slavoj-z...Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook

 

[SomeRandom]

I've heard white people wonder aloud that if black people can call each other ******, then white people can say ****** too, in order to combat the PC police. Because equality right?

That's no strawman. I hear it far too often around here in IL.

Well the whole reclamation of language doesn't really address any real problems with the language itself. Instead of using a particular slur to denigrate someone, which I do not support. All you've really done is shift the power that word has to another group of people. You haven't softened it, you haven't addressed why that word is so volatile in the first place, you've only made it taboo and therefore more charged than ever. The offense is now heightened, the ability to **** people off or insult them is far higher than it actually was in the first place. You haven't done anything to the language except make it that more powerful. So instead of moving forward, instead of mocking the insult, instead of putting it in it's proper place (ie beneath us) all you've done is made sure we stay stagnant. That we cannot use "that word" because it is so goddamned awful.
You have given power to that word.

So yeah, all races should use "that word." If it becomes every day, ordinary, you have sucked all the power it has to insult someone using it. I'm not saying to brush off history and all the awfulness that is accompanied by it. But I am saying there is some merit to the other side of this, how about the PC Police actually discusses this with their "enemies" instead of brushing them off as racist or misogynistic or sexist or whatever? Or as people who just want to use slurs?
We might be able to move forward instead of being locked in a continual cycle of every special snowflake getting offended at literally everything and other people telling them to suck it up. Because at this point, that's all I really see.
(By the way that goes for both sides of the equation. Look at the stupid uproar about Hermione being played by a black woman in the Cursed Child play. Like seriously. Ughh.)

 

[Riverwolf]

I've heard white people wonder aloud that if black people can call each other ******, then white people can say ****** too, in order to combat the PC police. Because equality right?

That's no strawman. I hear it far too often around here in IL.

I don't hear it at all around here (Diablo Valley, in NorCal) and everyone I know is fully behind this restricted use of language (at least to my knowledge).

So I definitely think there's some region-dependency on how prevalent certain attitudes are, making it far easier to spot for some people than for others.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Sometimes you hear about people complaining about political correctness, and how it's destroying free speech. So I just wanted to say:

You most certainly can:

- Insult minorities
- Insult sexualities
- Insult religions
- Insult people for their politics
- Insult people for their gender
- Insult people for a lack of mental facility.

You most certainly can do these things. In fact, your right to do so is legally protected. You have a right to free speech.


But also....


You have a moral right to be held accountable to what you say.

Political Correctness isn't there as legislation to stop you saying whatever bilge you like, political correctness is there as an opportunity to think better and speak wiser if you should choose.

But, if you wish to insult minorities, or women, homosexuals go right ahead - nobody will stop you. But people will hold you accountable, and it is right to do so.

This is an example of the ever growing popularity of falsely equivocating being against pc with being bigoted. Which, interestingly, highlights the problems moat rational people have with absolutist, socially driven pc movements: their underlying propensity to quash any opinions which don't fully agree. It's similar to any echo chamber effect you see with any ideology.

 

[Thief]

Sometimes you hear about people complaining about political correctness, and how it's destroying free speech. So I just wanted to say:

You most certainly can:

- Insult minorities
- Insult sexualities
- Insult religions
- Insult people for their politics
- Insult people for their gender
- Insult people for a lack of mental facility.

You most certainly can do these things. In fact, your right to do so is legally protected. You have a right to free speech.


But also....


You have a moral right to be held accountable to what you say.

Political Correctness isn't there as legislation to stop you saying whatever bilge you like, political correctness is there as an opportunity to think better and speak wiser if you should choose.

But, if you wish to insult minorities, or women, homosexuals go right ahead - nobody will stop you. But people will hold you accountable, and it is right to do so.

you are not free with a sword hanging over your head.

you are free to say as you please......I would defend that freedom to the death.
famous quote (hope someone finds it in the history books)

standup comics do insult for a living.
I say we should all do so....to strengthen our spirits.
thin skin is not the way to go

 

[Thief]

sticks and stones may break my bones ....but words will never hurt me....
another famous saying.....

now if someone was to interfere with my reputation.....
and insult is not the same topic.

then we have a discussion about harm.

insult is seen as harm by those who choose to feel it.
call me names....I care not....
talk to my boss about my work......OH! OH!

 

[Thief]

your freedom is found within yourself first.
then you are free to do so unto others

 

[Willamena]

The best type of insult is the one where the insulted doesn't immediately realize they have been insulted. It's a fine art, really.

The problem with that is being too subtle. If they never actually feel insult, has insult actually occurred? (ponder!)

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I don't hear it at all around here (Diablo Valley, in NorCal) and everyone I know is fully behind this restricted use of language (at least to my knowledge).

So I definitely think there's some region-dependency on how prevalent certain attitudes are, making it far easier to spot for some people than for others.

I'd say so too.