Abandon All Hope

[JustWondering]

Your beliefs are not simple logic. In fact, I will venture to state there is nothing logical about stating any of the above does not exist. You hold a position of faith. Accept that for what it is and admit you believe such things do not exist. You claim that you know these things simply do not exist, I challenge you to go prove it to the world. Go on, end religion.

This argument is a strawman. I can no more prove the nonexistence of any god than you can prove its existence. However, that doesn't mean I have to entertain the existence of things that cannot be shown to actually exist. If you don't like that, that's your problem.

 

[ThirtyThree]

This argument is a strawman. I can no more prove the nonexistence of any god than you can prove its existence. However, that doesn't mean I have to entertain the existence of things that cannot be shown to actually exist. If you don't like that, that's your problem.

Telling you to prove the non existence of what you claim does not exist is hardly much to ask, right? You claim it does not exist. You know, right? You are so all knowing, you have ventured all over the planet, to other worlds and to other galaxies? You even have either proven there are parallel universes or not? You obviously have proven there are no immaterial (as humans currently know material) realities, right? Can you please post the research proving there are no parallel universes or immaterial realities? Thank you.

 

[Riverwolf]

I explained myself clearly, so, the issue is probably that you don't want to get it.

Is that seriously the only other explanation that you can think of? Or are you trying to make a point? Because that just sounds like when Evangelicals go "oh, you just don't WANT to believe."

For the record, in case you're not aware, I have asperger's syndrome.

This is a debate forum. If people expressing opposing opinions is threatening to you, why are you in the debate forums?

As I've explained, when I feel threatened, there's a LOT more going on than simple expressions of opposing views.

If my blunt way of expressing my opinions and arguments offends, well, that's just the way I express myself. If you read more into it than what's actually there, I can't do much about that. Since I don't know anyone on this site in RL, I only respond to what is posted.

Oh, it's there. It's there whether you intended it to be there or not. Communication is two-way, so if what you intended to communicate isn't what's received, then... well, stop using that Hungarian Translation Book. (...if you don't get the reference, just look up that Monty Python skit. It's great.)

Our discussion began when 33 said I needed evidence to support my posts or I shouldn't post. I retorted by telling him to support his posts with evidence. After that point he began back pedaling. He tried to use faith as an excuse for being able to post what he wants without evidence to back it up and when that didn't fly he tried flimsy arguments that it was ok for him to post because he is "open" to the existence of things that have not been absolutely disproven.

So, basically this whole thing is just you being upset at being told to back your statements up?

In any case, I didn't ask for the break down of the whole backandforth you two have had this thread. I meant that one post. It seriously looked like you were quoting the wrong post.

Frankly, I'm about ready to just back out of this little squabble of your guys'. It has nothing to do with the OP, anyway, and clearly none of us can understand each other.

 

[JustWondering]

Telling you to prove the non existence of what you claim does not exist is hardly much to ask, right? You claim it does not exist. You know, right? You are so all knowing, you have ventured all over the planet, to other worlds and to other galaxies? You even have either proven there are parallel universes or not? You obviously have proven there are no immaterial (as humans currently know material) realities, right? Can you please post the research proving there are no parallel universes or immaterial realities? Thank you.

The same strawman argument? Seeing is believing. Show me your god. Thank you.

 

[ThirtyThree]

The same strawman argument? Seeing is believing. Show me your god. Thank you.

I am not the one claiming absolutely that my deity or any other exists. As I stated, I believe. I have FAITH my deity and other deities exist.

Now, prove God does not exist.

 

[JustWondering]

Is that seriously the only other explanation that you can think of? Or are you trying to make a point? Because that just sounds like when Evangelicals go "oh, you just don't WANT to believe.".

If you can't understand than you can't understand.

For the record, in case you're not aware, I have asperger's syndrome..

Not familiar with it. If you want to debate with me I'm not going to cut you any slack for having Asperger's, just so you know.

As I've explained, when I feel threatened, there's a LOT more going on than simple expressions of opposing views.

I know someone who has intense anxiety issues. It is really hard for them to cope with simple issues others deal with daily. However, I'm in the debate forums to debate

Oh, it's there. It's there whether you intended it to be there or not. Communication is two-way, so if what you intended to communicate isn't what's received, then... well, stop using that Hungarian Translation Book. (...if you don't get the reference, just look up that Monty Python skit. It's great.).

I'm not interested in insulting people or name calling, not why I'm here. My manner is often blunt and if it offends you, you're reading too much into it.

So, basically this whole thing is just you being upset at being told to back your statements up?.

No, it was his hypocritical assumption that I need to provide hard evidence for anything I post and he doesn't.

In any case, I didn't ask for the break down of the whole backandforth you two have had this thread. I meant that one post. It seriously looked like you were quoting the wrong post.

Frankly, I'm about ready to just back out of this little squabble of your guys'. It has nothing to do with the OP, anyway, and clearly none of us can understand each other.

It's all good, I don't get mad about anything posted by anyone here. Just like arguing to argue sometimes. That's what the debate forum is for right?

 

[JustWondering]

I am not the one claiming absolutely that my deity or any other exists. As I stated, I believe. I have FAITH my deity and other deities exist.

Now, prove God does not exist.

And? I believe the opposite, and have already stated it takes a LOT LESS faith not to believe than to believe. Now what?

 

[ThirtyThree]

And? I believe the opposite, and have already stated it takes a LOT LESS faith not to believe than to believe. Now what?

Well said.

 

[JustWondering]

Well said.

I do not outright reject the idea of some kind of creator or other dimensions. I just haven't heard any creator concepts that are plausible to me or the concept is so irrelevant that there is no real point in believing/not believing in it.

I also try to keep myself honest. There are many god concepts and all of them have the same amount of hard evidence to support them. I would consider myself dishonest to except one over the others.

 

[Riverwolf]

If you can't understand than you can't understand.

Thank you. That's where the conversation SHOULD stop.

Not familiar with it. If you want to debate with me I'm not going to cut you any slack for having Asperger's, just so you know.

Means high functioning autism. I don't expect slack; I expect it to be taken into account when the topic of discussion is inter-human interactions, because by nature I'm blind to most of the stuff others know instinctively (such as why eye-contact is important), and have had to learn them in my adulthood.

I'm not interested in insulting people or name calling, not why I'm here. My manner is often blunt and if it offends you, you're reading too much into it.

I've never been given any reason to see this as anythiing other than an excuse to not take responsibility for behavior.

Basically, speaking in ways that hurts and offends other people is okay with you because it's their fault for being offended, but other people just passively believing whatever they want is not okay with you because it's their fault for being "superstitious"?

It's all good, I don't get mad about anything posted by anyone here. Just like arguing to argue sometimes. That's what the debate forum is for right?

See my signature.

 

[Etritonakin]

This dimension we are now living in is ruled by abrahamic god.He rules this world with an iron fist namely pain and fear.We cannot live our hearts desires because abrahamic god is the ultimate constricter and restrainer.We have no option but bend before him and wish to get accepted by him or else he will torture us , make us miserable.All of our longings desires will just make it harder because we are trapped in his dimension and he won't let us into another.We should just accept we are his slaves and hope to get accepted with him.We just cannot beat him there is no hope , you cannot hope to have an existence of your own.

Initially, God simply gave the rules. They apply to all simply because they do.
They are what must be done so that everyone can exist together without conflict.
They are based on reality.

God did allow us to decide things -to disobey.

Now we have a world of constant subdivision and conflict.

The truth is that in order to have an existence of your own, you must respect the existence of all -including God.

Before God will give you a greater existence, God will be certain that you will not use your own existence incorrectly.

"Hell" is not as many think. It is an ultimatum -and that which God will employ to purify those who need it. It is one thing -but our experience of it another.
It is potentially everlasting torment -but that is not to say it will be.
It is potentially that by which God can completely destroy one's body and spirit -but that is not to say any will be completely destroyed.
It can be and will be this and that -as necessary.

It is written that some will be saved "as by fire".

It is -of itself -an indefinite unpleasantness which will actually turn people from that which would cause eternal misery.

It is a border between what must be and what must not be.

It is God knowing that we truly would not want to go into that situation -and turning us by this situation.

The universe -perhaps even beyond -awaits the children of God, but the children of God must be prepared to receive it.

There are a few basic rules which must be obeyed by all.

Disobedience to those rules made a complete mess of things -but God is bringing us all through a process of experience which will result in our acknowledging the necessity of those rules, and will cause us to reject that which we then understand will cause misery.

God allowed us to experience the results of our choices -and the results of the choices of others -because that is the reality we must acknowledge.
What we do affects everything and everyone.

Once we can be trusted with our own existence, we will be.

 

[rusra02]

Yeah, it worked out pretty well. He got to live a full life with a variety of experiences, rather than in sheltered stagnation.

Experiences such as being sentenced to death, suffering what God foretold; "In pain you will eat [ the grounds] produce all the days of your life. It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return?" Experiencing the sorrow of having your son murder his brother, watching your wife lose her beauty to become wrinkled and finally die? Seeing your once perfect body deteriorating while you have no hope of regaining what you threw away? Experiencing the evil influence of the liar and murderer Satan in all that you do? Those experiences? Adam's life was long but full only of trouble and futility.

 

[Riverwolf]

Experiences such as being sentenced to death, suffering what God foretold; "In pain you will eat [ the grounds] produce all the days of your life. It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return?" Experiencing the sorrow of having your son murder his brother, watching your wife lose her beauty to become wrinkled and finally die? Seeing your once perfect body deteriorating while you have no hope of regaining what you threw away? Experiencing the evil influence of the liar and murderer Satan in all that you do? Those experiences? Adam's life was long but full only of trouble and futility.

Made a far more interesting story, though. Notice how there's only ever, like, a few sentences about life in the Garden, and entire chapters about life afterwards?

 

[ThirtyThree]

Or it is just frustration with people who believe in fictional characters and obviously made up stories from thousands of years ago created by superstitious people like its real.

First, you do not KNOW they are fictional characters. Second, why do you care what other people believe? Many adults believe in fairies, sea folk and so on. So what? Does their belief interfere with you living your life?

 

[JustWondering]

First, you do not KNOW they are fictional characters. Second, why do you care what other people believe? Many adults believe in fairies, sea folk and so on. So what? Does their belief interfere with you living your life?

Let's not start this again. You know where I stand on this. Mythical stories involving the supernatural should not be taken as literal. There is simply no evidence to suggest that any god/s have interfered with life on earth. Something may have gotten things going (or not), but has since just sat back and let nature take its course. Without evidence (or a good argument) to back any believers claims, non-believers are not obligated to entertain them. I know you don't like that, but that's the way it is.