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Abiogenesis or the Lord?

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
God is beyond just living.
If you consider God real and alive, then the existence of God is an example of abiogenesis. Believers frequently tell us that life always comes from previous life, but as you can see, that is incorrect even if you believe in God whether you call God living or not.
As a pantheist and syntheist I believe God is what nature is becoming. I use God instead of nature when applicable when I refer to ultimate nature.
OK. Your worldview might not be too different from mine, and I'm an atheist. I don't use the word God. If you saw my exchange with SalixIncendium, you saw an example of the ambiguity that ensues in Western culture when the word God is used to mean something other than a kind of person that you can talk to and who does things.

I'm starting to get the sense that most non-Abrahamics, especially the polytheists, are theistic humanists, which is only distinguished from atheistic humanism by the use of the word God or gods to describe nature. There are also Abrahamic theists who fit into this category, but they are the minority of the Christians, and none of the Baha'i. At the risk of offending these Christians, I would say that they don't believe in their god any differently than you believe in yours. If they pray, don't expect answers. I was only able to tell that they consider themselves Christian because they entered that as their religion back when RF had a place to do that, but otherwise, they write nothing that I wouldn't agree with, they respect and rely on reason and conscience (none are homophobes, atheophobes, or misogynists due to scripture as best I can tell), they respect education and science, so they fit the definition of humanist despite saying they have a God-belief.

And to the Christians who fit that description reading here, if you came from the kind of Christianity I did, which was a charismatic form of fundamental Protestantism, my apologies. I would have been chastised in my congregation if I came back and told them that somebody said that about me, that there was no evidence of Christianity visible in me until I told them, and I probably would have been horrified.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I guess we’ll never know. Life has never been created in a lab from non living components. Did abiogenesis even occur 3.5 billion yrs ago? Maybe it took the hand of God to create life. I guess we'll never know.
To take it deeper than just saying 'God' I see Nature Spirits at work in fostering physical life.

I don't subscribe to the argument that complex life developed through random non-thinking forces only.

And my views are influenced by those that I believe have perceived and experienced beyond our physical senses.
 

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
Yes, overall I would say that we are very similar @It Aint Necessarily So . And if you want to call me a 'theistic humanist' that's fine.
I was only able to tell that they consider themselves Christian because they entered that as their religion back when RF had a place to do that
(Going slightly off-topic) This is the only part I actually want to correct. There actually still is a part where you can change and view this information, but now in order to do so you have to visit someone's profile to do that, so it's not right out on the open for everybody to see right away. I talked to some of the staff about this and it looks like they'll change this again so if you hover over someone's name it will give that information. But the information is still there for people to see, you just need to go to their profile > about section now to see it.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I guess we’ll never know. Life has never been created in a lab from non living components.

Which is something that can be said about anything we know to be true today.
If that's your argument against it, then you're just making an argument from ignorance.

Did abiogenesis even occur 3.5 billion yrs ago?

Well..... at first there was no life. Then there was. So necessarily: yes, life came into existence where there wasn't any life before.

Maybe it took the hand of God to create life.

Or maybe it was a giant undetectable extra-dimensional unicorn letting one rip through 10-dimension quantum space which coalesced into a living thing.

I guess we'll never know.

Why do you think we'll never know?
Sure, we'll never know when it comes to unfalsifiable "explanations" that are indistinguishable from fantasy.
But there's no reason we'll never know when it comes to actual falsifiable proper scientific hypothesis.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Did abiogenesis even take place 3.5 million yrs ago?

More like at least 3.8 billion years ago.
And: necessarily, yes.

First there was no life, then there was.
So necessarily, life came into being where there wasn't any life before.
That's abiogenesis. The alternative is biogenesis, and that's life coming from already existing life.
So necessarily, it was an abiogenesis event.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
That's abiogenesis. The alternative is biogenesis, and that's life coming from already existing life.
So necessarily, it was an abiogenesis event.
Except when panspermia is true. Then the abiogenesis event happened at an earlier point in time at a different place.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I got a feeling a lot of people would like to see a abiogenesis re-created in a lab just so they can say see God didn’t create life. Haha

I detect from your posts it’s very important to prove God exists. Why? Whom are you trying to convince?
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It seems to me that the concept of God is more like a mind than anything else. Is a mind it a human quality? Yes. But does that mean it is an ONLY human quality?
It seems to me that the concept of God is more like a mind than anything else. Is a mind it a human quality? Yes. But does that mean it is an ONLY human quality?
"God" is always conceived as a personage; a living, thinking entity.
A non personified god would be nature, or the laws of physics -- not at all what worshipers think of when they speak of God.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
"God" is always conceived as a personage; a living, thinking entity.
A non personified god would be nature, or the laws of physics -- not at all what worshipers think of when they speak of God.

Agreed. I just wrote the same thing three hours ago on another thread to a poster who eventually told RF that God means the unknown when he uses the word:

He: ""God" is just a label we use for however we choose to characterize the unknowable and uncontrollable in life. Calling it something else makes no difference"

Reply: It does to me. That word carries baggage I don't intend be suggested when talking about such matters. For how many months were you misunderstood in recent years because you used that word?

And I don't assume that he doesn't mean a person if he prefers that word.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
I guess we’ll never know. Life has never been created in a lab from non living components. Did abiogenesis even occur 3.5 billion yrs ago? Maybe it took the hand of God to create life. I guess we'll never know.
If celestial beings, agents of the Gods created and fostered primitive life forms on earth that evolved into life as we know it today then the material remains of that history would look like it does.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
God is beyond just living.

You keep making claims, one after the others:
  • claims without support from any evidence, and claims based solely on your faith and beliefs of your religions (of whatever your church teachings and your scriptures, which I would assume to be the Bible);
  • claims on Abiogenesis that you lack the education or experiences to make judgments of being incorrect or false.
This latest claim of yours, you are making assumption “God is beyond just living” is another one - a big whopper of a claim.

Have you seen ever God, got friendly with God that you walk with him like Enoch, to “get to know the real Him”?

Genesis 5:22

22 Enoch walked with God after the birth of Methuselah three hundred years and had other sons and daughters.


Genesis 5:24

24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him.

If these 2 passages were literally true about Enoch, then God not only spoke to him up-close, face-to-face, Enoch would have seen God, gotten close that most prophets in the Bible wouldn’t have seen God.

Other people who have seen God, were Adam and Eve (Genesis 2 & 3), Moses (Exodus 32:20), or may have seen God, like Abraham (Genesis 18) and Jacob (32:30), where God may have appeared to them in either human form or angel form.

What make you so special, moon, that you would think you to know God?
 

gnostic

The Lost One
It seems to me that the concept of God is more like a mind than anything else. Is a mind it a human quality? Yes. But does that mean it is an ONLY human quality?

If you look at the majority of ancient religions, people often view what they believe in their respective gods in “human” forms.

Oh, some of those other religions also worship their gods in animal forms, as well as trees.

Then there are gods they view as the literal seas, rivers, rains, thunder storms, mountains, sun, moon, etc; but sometimes, even these too are sometimes personified. And in the later case where personifications (eg sun, lightning, sea) are involved, these religions are very much anthropoid-centric in nature.

Even in Abrahamic religions, God is viewed like human monarch with very human behaviours, play favoritisms, eg rewards those who worship him, like Abraham, Jacob, David, etc, but shows anger, when people are led astray, worshipping other gods, punishing them. And like a human, god can hold grudges against a person or against the population.

From what I have seen in scriptures, myths and in arts, humans have created god their image, not god or gods creating humans.
 
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