abiogenesis

[angellous_evangellous]

Heavens! As a fire breathing God-hating puppy-BBQing atheist, even I would not go that far.
I cannot calculate any probabilities, & would only say that we can't prove that God is necessary.

kitten-killing would be more acccurate

 

[Revoltingest]

kitten-killing would be more acccurate

But out of stereotype.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

But out of stereotype.

Some are correct

 

[Meow Mix]

kitten-killing would be more acccurate

We do NOT speak such blasphemy even in jest!!! :no::cover:

 

[Riverwolf]

Wouldn't this have a more profound impact on gene-therapy than anything else?

This achievement doesn't really have anything to do with God, IMO.

Unless, of course, "we're tampering in God's blueprints!" lol

 

[outhouse]

Wouldn't this have a more profound impact on gene-therapy than anything else?

This achievement doesn't really have anything to do with God, IMO.

Unless, of course, "we're tampering in God's blueprints!" lol

You have a point with gene therapy.

Even if they had really created the first life form, that was created on earth billions of years ago, it would still not have anything to do with a god. Nothing modern man can or will ever do have anything to do with a god. in my opinion

 

[Falvlun]

That's not what the experiment proves. If nothing natural existed, they wouldn't have been able to "create" a synthetic life form. They have manipulated nature using natural patterns (DNA) to "create" something that could not have naturally evolved.

I know. That's what I've been saying. That comment was directed more at the OP and thread title, which did seem to imply that this experiment would somehow dispel the concept of the need for a Creator to create life.

No matter how unlikely it may seem, the probability of nature occuring naturally through naturalistic evolution is a factor of 1. We're here, and we can prove that there is no need for a creator, whether divine or alien. It's possible, but the likely hood of that is far less probable than what we can actually prove.

Hm. I don't think the factor of everything occuring naturally can be said to be 1. Maybe 0.99 or something, cuz we just don't know that a god or an alien didn't dip his finger into that primordial soup.

 

[Nepenthe]

Wouldn't this have a more profound impact on gene-therapy than anything else?

Venter hinted at using the synthetic cells to clean up oil spills when he first revealed his discovery, but lately he seems to be interested in applying the technology to algae-based fuel. Apparently Exxon has expressed interest and pledged a potential 600 million in cooperation with Venter's company (Synthetic Genomics Inc.) to pursue such a project. Some biochemists, like Jay Keasling, remain less optimistic than Venter concerning how quickly such goals will be achieved, but that it is still likely to occur (in fact Keasling just published a paper in Science last week on this very subject).

 

[Falvlun]

Venter hinted at using the synthetic cells to clean up oil spills when he first revealed his discovery, but lately he seems to be interested in applying the technology to algae-based fuel. Apparently Exxon has expressed interest and pledged a potential 600 million in cooperation with Venter's company (Synthetic Genomics Inc.) to pursue such a project. Some biochemists, like Jay Keasling, remain less optimistic than Venter concerning how quickly such goals will be achieved, but that it is still likely to occur (in fact Keasling just published a paper in Science last week on this very subject).

Does anyone else worry about just releasing artificial cells into the wild? It's not like humans have the best track record at intoducing non-native species into an environment. Good god, we thought asian carp and kudzu were a good idea. How do we know these things won't just take over... or worse, turn us into zombies?

 

[Meow Mix]

Does anyone else worry about just releasing artificial cells into the wild? It's not like humans have the best track record at intoducing non-native species into an environment. Good god, we thought asian carp and kudzu were a good idea. How do we know these things won't just take over... or worse, turn us into zombies?

This is similar to the question of grey goo (Grey goo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

There are proposals of splicing in weaknesses to pre-fabricated substances... sort of like the reverse of creating a cure (making it so that a pre-defined substance BECOMES a cure).

Also there are proposals for programming in a requirement for "food" that doesn't occur in nature, making it so synthetic organisms can only exist in the lab.

However it all reminds me of Jurassic Park... "nature finds a way."

 

[Kilgore Trout]

We do NOT speak such blasphemy even in jest!!! :no::cover:

Whose jesting?

 

[Nepenthe]

Does anyone else worry about just releasing artificial cells into the wild? It's not like humans have the best track record at intoducing non-native species into an environment. Good god, we thought asian carp and kudzu were a good idea. How do we know these things won't just take over... or worse, turn us into zombies?

I'd like the zombie scenario...
I don't like the microbes-eating-plastics scenario though.

Many of Venter’s competitors see his method(s) as impractical and there’s no denying that Venter is a business man- with the requisite hype- as much as he is a scientist. So it’s all still up in the air as to how practical the whole thing may be. As for the threat, well, maybe. But DuPont has been using genetically modified bacteria to manufacture synthetic fibers for clothes and carpets since about 2004 or thereabouts with no negative consequences; Amyris has recently created a synthetic microbe to be used in manufacturing the antimalarial drug artemisinin. I don’t doubt these things need to be monitored, but, as in Venter’s case, they’re dealing with algae cells specifically altered to die if released. The chances of a catastrophe here seem slim and outweigh the benefits imo.

One of my favorite responses to the classic “aren’t you playing God?” questions was Venter’s response in a 60 Minutes interview:

“We're not playing anything. We're understanding the rules of life.”​

​

 

[Nepenthe]

This is similar to the question of grey goo (Grey goo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

There are proposals of splicing in weaknesses to pre-fabricated substances... sort of like the reverse of creating a cure (making it so that a pre-defined substance BECOMES a cure).

Also there are proposals for programming in a requirement for "food" that doesn't occur in nature, making it so synthetic organisms can only exist in the lab.

However it all reminds me of Jurassic Park... "nature finds a way."

I was going to make a tasteless joke about "gray goo" but I decided to hold back. I hope everyone is as proud of me as I am over my restraint.

 

[Meow Mix]

Whose jesting?

*super sad puppy eyes face*

 

[Meow Mix]

I was going to make a tasteless joke about "gray goo" but I decided to hold back. I hope everyone is as proud of me as I am over my restraint.

Thank Iluvatar for lesbianism. Yucky.

 

[Nepenthe]

Thank Iluvatar for lesbianism. Yucky.

Oddly enough my joke was about scissoring but, again, I held back.

And please refrain from using offensive gynecological terms like "Iluvatar" in the future. Kids read this forum you know.

 

[Falvlun]

This is similar to the question of grey goo (Grey goo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

There are proposals of splicing in weaknesses to pre-fabricated substances... sort of like the reverse of creating a cure (making it so that a pre-defined substance BECOMES a cure).

Also there are proposals for programming in a requirement for "food" that doesn't occur in nature, making it so synthetic organisms can only exist in the lab.

However it all reminds me of Jurassic Park... "nature finds a way."

Hadn't heard of grey goo before, but Vonnegut's "ice-nine", as well as our own sorry history, were enough to get me thinking along those lines.

Those safety features are somewhat reasurring, but, as your Jurassic Park quote states, "nature finds a way". If these things are living organisms, then they should be able to evolve; and as bacteria, they'll be evolving relatively quickly. Gotta keep a really close eye on 'em.

Many of Venter’s competitors see his method(s) as impractical and there’s no denying that Venter is a business man- with the requisite hype- as much as he is a scientist. So it’s all still up in the air as to how practical the whole thing may be. As for the threat, well, maybe. But DuPont has been using genetically modified bacteria to manufacture synthetic fibers for clothes and carpets since about 2004 or thereabouts with no negative consequences; Amyris has recently created a synthetic microbe to be used in manufacturing the antimalarial drug artemisinin. I don’t doubt these things need to be monitored, but, as in Venter’s case, they’re dealing with algae cells specifically altered to die if released. The chances of a catastrophe here seem slim and outweigh the benefits imo.

I wonder if they've done any testing of the surrounding environment to see if any have "escaped" and if they are thriving.

We do seem to be opening up a new door on technology, and generally, that has been a good thing. But I'd be lying if I said this one didn't make me very, very nervous.

 

[Riverwolf]

And please refrain from using offensive gynecological terms like "Iluvatar" in the future. Kids read this forum you know.

...you do know who Iluvatar is, don't you?

 

[Falvlun]

...you do know who Iluvatar is, don't you?

My heart aches for those in the darkness. :yes:

 

[Nepenthe]

...you do know who Iluvatar is, don't you?

Of course. It's derived from the Latin "volva" meaning "deadly snail" or "Swedish car" and the Greek "Iluva" meaning "lady parts". The Iluvatar is located between a woman's Eä and her Ainu.

That wasn't so hard- don't you people have a gynecological dictionary around?