Abomination of Desolation

[Dawnofhope]

I will try.....

abomination....repulsive, horrifying, disgusting....
desolation....empty, sterile, abandoned....

To stand in the 'holy place'.....heaven is within you
stand well in that place

let all others run in fear

This is excellent because you are considering what the words might mean and also possible metaphor. The meaning may or may not refer to idols as with the translation and it does not matter.

What is the most repulsive and horrifying thing that stands in the Holy Place? No swear words please. Try to relate it to the key themes and processes outlined in the Bible.

 

[Dawnofhope]

He was not speaking of pending history
He was taking aim at mind and heart
as He did with all of His teachings

True. I'm in the process of unravelling this as we all are. However context and history can be relevant.

 

[Kemosloby]

Nice to hear from someone who is engaging with this topic seriously and trying to connect the dots, not that I mind the light hearted banter either.

Of course Jesus is giving a sermon on the Mount of Olives and had predicted the destruction of the Temple. This is an enormously significant event as it was the focal point of worship for the Jews for hundreds of years and can be traced back to Moses and the tabernacle. It also coincided with the destruction of Jerusalem. It was beginning of the Jewish diaspora and the fortunes of the Jewish people were to deteriorate badly in years to come. So there is certainly a profound theme of desolation and abomination in all of this. However I think there is more to it and reading and rereading Mathew 24 and Daniel 9 is essential.

Any further thoughts?

If you read on in Matt 24 15-, it seems like it could be a recurring theme since towards the end it talks about the second coming. The Daniel prophecy could be talking about the destruction of the temple in 70 ad, Seventy is a number mentioned in the Daniel prophecy. So they set up the abomination of desolation in the temple and brought destruction, As a shadow of things to come, the spirit of God is no longer confined to the temple but spread out on the whole earth. So if you see Idols being set up all over the world it could mean the abomination of desolation is not far off for the world.

 

[Dawnofhope]

If you read on in Matt 24 15-, it seems like it could be a recurring theme since towards the end it talks about the second coming. The Daniel prophecy could be talking about the destruction of the temple in 70 ad, Seventy is a number mentioned in the Daniel prophecy. So they set up the abomination of desolation in the temple and brought destruction, As a shadow of things to come, the spirit of God is no longer confined to the temple but spread out on the whole earth. So if you see Idols being set up all over the world it could mean the abomination of desolation is not far off for the world.

Thank you. The Olivet discourse focuses around near and far off future events. Initially our attention is drawn to Jesus' prediction about the destruction of the Temple and the apocalyptic style of language highlights two processes. One is the demise of the Jewish community, the other the ascension or resurrection of the Christian community with its accompanying trials.

The mention of the Abomination of desolation occurs midway through Mathew 24 and marks a turning point where Christ is referring to His return. It is highly significant that He refers to this verse from the Book of Daniel which of course in turn specifically relates to Jesus. In fact there are numbers in this chapter that can be linked to the approximate year of His Crucifixion. Jesus' sermon is in the week leading up to His Martyrdom. Another connection is that as we read on through the book of Daniel, as with the Olivet discourse there are events that refer to The Return of Christ.

Any further insights into the what else the abomination of desolation may be?

 

[Kemosloby]

Thank you. The Olivet discourse focuses around near and far off future events. Initially our attention is drawn to Jesus' prediction about the destruction of the Temple and the apocalyptic style of language highlights two processes. One is the demise of the Jewish community, the other the ascension or resurrection of the Christian community with its accompanying trials.

The mention of the Abomination of desolation occurs midway through Mathew 24 and marks a turning point where Christ is referring to His return. It is highly significant that He refers to this verse from the Book of Daniel which of course in turn specifically relates to Jesus. In fact there are numbers in this chapter that can be linked to the approximate year of His Crucifixion. Of course Jesus' sermon is in the week leading up to His Martyrdom. Another connection is that as we read on through the book of Daniel, as with the Olivet discourse there are events that refer to The Return of Christ.

Any further insights into the what else the abomination of desolation may be?

No, but maybe if there was some information on what was going on at the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem around the time of it's destruction would offer some clues.

 

[Reggie Miller]

Thank you.

I wonder if the specific verse He was alluding to was Daniel 9:27
"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
What does it mean in the context of the Mount of Olives Discourse?

You're very welcome.

Jesus was explaining to His disciples about the end of the age because they had asked Him about it. He said that when you see the abomination set up then the great tribulation begins. And yes, Daniel 9:27 could very well be the verse He was referring to.

 

[Lyndon]

in the timeline of prophecies outlined in Daniel 11 and 12, the abomination of desolation concurs with the development of the nuclear bomb, 1945

 

[buddhist]

Of course the Christians believe He was anointed and He spoke with the Authority of the Father ... The authority of those that came after we need to consider on a case by case basis.

It is this latter part that I was referring to; presumably none of us are prophets, so we cannot say we have the capacity to authoritatively interpret the "Father", nor can we even authoritatively interpret his alleged interpreter (Jesus).

 

[buddhist]

I will try.....

abomination....repulsive, horrifying, disgusting....
desolation....empty, sterile, abandoned....

To stand in the 'holy place'.....heaven is within you
stand well in that place

'let them in Judea flee to the mountains....'
not necessarily a good choice.....as it is written
'let the mountains fall upon us....'

more briefly ....
stand.... in your well placed convictions
let all others run in fear

Thanks for trying, but can you say your interpretation is 100% correct & authoritative?

 

[Sleeppy]

Their temple, and religious practice, was being hijacked by "an abomination of desolation", i.e. a violent, or destructive force, or blasphemy.

The ancient nomads worshipped in the mountains. The Samaritans still do.

 

[Dawnofhope]

in the timeline of prophecies outlined in Daniel 11 and 12, the abomination of desolation concurs with the development of the nuclear bomb, 1945

Thank you. Please elaborate referring to specific verses

 

[Lyndon]

Read the prophecy.

 

[Dawnofhope]

It is this latter part that I was referring to; presumably none of us are prophets, so we cannot say we have the capacity to authoritatively interpret the "Father", nor can we even authoritatively interpret his alleged interpreter (Jesus).

None of us are prophets for certain. I base my understanding on The One who is authorised to speak on behalf of the Father, for example "The Son."

John 10:30
"I and my Father are one."

John 12:49
"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak."


I believe in the same God, Jesus, and Gospel as the Christians. I am also a Baha'i. I accept we have different understandings and core assumptions about these matters.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Their temple, and religious practice, was being hijacked by "an abomination of desolation", i.e. a violent, or destructive force, or blasphemy.

Thank you.

I understand that the temple was completely destroyed so all the Silver and Gold within it could be extracted. As Christ said not a stone shall remain standing on another.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Read the prophecy.

Much of Daniel 11 is about events in the lead up to the temple destruction. Daniel 12 certainty takes us to events well beyond the destruction of the temple. You may or may not be right about 1945. It certainly was an abomination of desolation! Chapter 11 does contain the phrase but it appears either to do with the same abomination that Christ refers or perhaps an earlier event.

 

[Lyndon]

The end of chapter 11 is Hitler and the Persian Gulf war, followed by where we are now, the time of trouble IMHO

 

[Dawnofhope]

The end of chapter 11 is Hitler and the Persian Gulf war, followed by where we are now, the time of trouble IMHO

We are certainly living in a period of profound change and upheaval. I feel the sacred writings can assist us to make sense of these changing times. Jesus in Mathew 16:2-4 talks about the need to understand the signs of the times we live in. When Jesus delivered His talk on the Mount of Olives the earth metaphorically trembled. He referred to the end of an era (Judaism with its focus on the temple, Jerusalem and the Holy land - at least for another 1800 years), and the beginning a new era that was to be based on His teachings. However He also spoke of the distant future of His return. He spoke of the signs that would accompany HIs Return. One of those signs was the Gospel having been preached to all the Nations, which came to pass during the nineteenth century. No less significant a sign was the return of the Israelites to their homeland and this process began in the nineteenth century too with the signing of the Edict of toleration. So if we consider the profound social change that has followed this period of time we may discern meaning from the prophecy Jesus spoke of from Isaiah:

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:" Matthew 24:29

Perhaps this is no less relevant when we consider the abomination of desolation in our era.

 

[Deeje]

In Jesus' final sermon on the Mount of Olives He refers to the "abomination of desolation"

Mathew 24:15-16
"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:"

What does this mean?

Of course Jesus is giving a sermon on the Mount of Olives and had predicted the destruction of the Temple. This is an enormously significant event as it was the focal point of worship for the Jews for hundreds of years and can be traced back to Moses and the tabernacle. It also coincided with the destruction of Jerusalem. It was beginning of the Jewish diaspora and the fortunes of the Jewish people were to deteriorate badly in years to come. So there is certainly a profound theme of desolation and abomination in all of this. However I think there is more to it and reading and rereading Mathew 24 and Daniel 9 is essential.

Any further thoughts?

Here is our take on this.....
"Daniel’s prophecy foretold “disgusting things” associated with desolation. (Daniel 9:27) The popular view has generally followed early Jewish tradition in applying this expression to the profanation of Jehovah’s temple at Jerusalem in the year 168 B.C.E. by Syrian King Antiochus IV (Epiphanes). Attempting to stamp out the worship of Jehovah, Antiochus built an altar over the great altar of Jehovah and sacrificed upon this a pig to the Olympian Zeus (Jupiter). An expression like that of Daniel (associating disgusting things with desolation) appears in the Apocryphal book of 1 Maccabees (1:54) as applying to this event.

But this was only the Jewish interpretation of matters, not an inspired revelation. Christ Jesus showed this view to be in error when he gave the warning to his disciples: “Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place, (let the reader use discernment,) then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains.” (Matthew 24:15, 16) These words show that “the disgusting thing that causes desolation” was not then past but future.

The pagan desecration of the temple altar by Antiochus, however disgusting in God’s sight, did not result in desolation—for Jerusalem, for the temple, or for the Jewish nation. But 33 years after Jesus’ death, Christians did “catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation . . . standing in a holy place.” (Matthew 24:15) In 66 C.E. pagan Roman armies surrounded “the holy city” Jerusalem, now the center of Jewish revolt against Rome. Thus, the ‘causing of desolation’ by the disgusting thing was imminent, and so this was the final signal for discerning Christians to ‘flee to the mountains.’ (Matthew 4:5; 27:53; 24:15, 16; Luke 19:43, 44; 21:20-22) Following their flight, the desolation of the city and nation occurred, Jerusalem being destroyed in the year 70 C.E., and the last Jewish stronghold, Masada, falling to the Romans in 73 C.E.—Compare Daniel 9:25-27.

It should be noted, however, that Daniel 11:31-35 and 12:9, 11 connect a ‘disgusting thing causing desolation’ with “the time of the end.” It is reasonable that the development of this latter expression of ‘the disgusting thing causing desolation’ in the time of the end should follow the general pattern of that in the first century C.E., though not being restricted to the land of Israel.

Jerusalem’s desolation in 70 C.E. brought the end of the “holy place,” Jerusalem, “the holy city.” (Matthew 27:53) However, the Scriptures direct our attention to a “heavenly Jerusalem,” the Messianic Kingdom, which is represented on earth by anointed Christians. (Hebrews 12:22) There are also others that falsely claim to represent that Kingdom, and Revelation chapter 17 shows that their religious field of operations will be desolated by the “ten horns” (kings) of a symbolic “wild beast.” (Insight Volume 1)

So what "disgusting thing" will stand in a holy place in this time of the end? In the first century it was the Roman armies undermining the wall of God's temple and destroying it along with the city of Jerusalem, just as Jesus predicted. (Matthew 24:2)

In our day another powerful entity will attack what is holy to many people...religion.....the single most divisive element on earth. Pictured by a prostitute, the political powers, formerly her 'lovers', will turn on her and strip her of all he has. Some of the world's greatest treasures are stored in the vaults of Babylon the great.

No one will save her. (Revelation 18:4, 5)

 

[Dawnofhope]

So what "disgusting thing" will stand in a holy place in this time of the end? In the first century it was the Roman armies undermining the wall of God's temple and destroying it along with the city of Jerusalem, just as Jesus predicted. (Matthew 24:2)

Thank you for sharing the Jehovah Witnesses understanding in regards to the meaning of the words spoken by Jesus in Mathew 24:15 when referring to the book of Daniel. I do agree with the quoted phrase immediately above.

I would also add Jesus, a Most Divine Manifestation of the Attributes of His Heavenly Father and innocent of any crime whatsoever was beaten, tortured, and put to death in a most cruel and barbaric manner by His own people, God's chosen ones. Their hatred for their Messiah was manifest when they jeered for Barabbas a criminal to be released, and not their Spiritual King. Their high priest Caiaphas despite his high station, totally indifferent to the 'Son of God' he interrogated, arranged for Him to be put to death. So the condition of the hearts of that people was also an abomination that led to desolation.

Another aspect is that Jesus on speaking these words was referring to the fulfilment of prophecy in Daniel Chapter 9 in regards to the seven seventies. I will explore this another time.

In our day another powerful entity will attack what is holy to many people...religion.....the single most divisive element on earth.

And perhaps the most poignant of abominations was despite the powerful emphasis The Sanctified Personage of Jesus placed on love and forgiveness, Christians became religious bigots and antisemitic. This culminated in Christians becoming complicit or ignoring the extermination of million of Jews, God's chosen people. Like animals, they were herded into trains, worked to exhaustion, put to death, and their bodies piled up like garbage. My heart groans in anguish and pain when I consider the hearts and actions of my ancestors.

Truly the Sun of God's Divine Guidance has dimmed, The moon of guidance from His Priests and Ministers ceased to shine, and the followers of His Divine Grace fell from heaven to the realm of earthly passions and desires, even to bestiality!

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"
Matthew 24:29

 

[buddhist]

None of us are prophets for certain. I base my understanding on The One who is authorised to speak on behalf of the Father, for example "The Son."

John 10:30
"I and my Father are one."

John 12:49
"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak."


I believe in the same God, Jesus, and Gospel as the Christians. I am also a Baha'i. I accept we have different understandings and core assumptions about these matters.

My question is: Who's authorized to speak on behalf of the one authorized to speak on behalf of the Father?