For which religion? In Christianity Jesus referred to Peter.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Abomination of Desolation
- Thread starter Dawnofhope
- Start date
buddhist
Well-Known Member
This is a very good line of questioning because for Christianity we are left with a line successors from Peter which are of course the Popes. No doubt many were very spiritual men in the first few centuries of Christianity but around the time of the emperor Constantinople matters become murky indeed.
How about Buddism? Do we actually have any texts we can say authoritively were the words of Buddha?
I think its worth noting that the Baha'i Faith has a clear succession of Divine Authority from its founder Baha'u'llah to Divinely appointed institutions invested with the Divine Authority to resolve difficult matters and legislate on matters not explicitly revealed in sacred texts. It is from the Baha'i writings I gain inspiration and insight along with the Holy Bible. So if I sound assured in my views it is because whenever possible I try to reflect the Holy writings available. One could refer to these Exalted Words as the Ocean of God's Revelation. Care to come for a swim?
Last edited:
jesus on a cross as a sin sacrifice is the abomination of desolation, established by the Greek horn (Paul) speaking pompous words against the Most High.
Dan 9:26-27 After the sixty-two weeks the Anointed One (Messiah) will be cut off, and will have nothing. The people of the prince who come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. (Rome) Its end will be with a flood, and war will be even to the end. Desolations are determined. (27) He will make a firm covenant with many for one week. In the middle of the week he will cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease. On the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate (Christianity); and even to the full end, and that determined, wrath will be poured out on the desolate.”
When you distinguish that Christianity (John, Paul and Simon) doesn't follow Yeshua; they've made him into an idol, defiling the law in multiple places, worshiping death, this is an abomination that is explained multiple times across the Tanakh.
Dan 9:26-27 After the sixty-two weeks the Anointed One (Messiah) will be cut off, and will have nothing. The people of the prince who come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. (Rome) Its end will be with a flood, and war will be even to the end. Desolations are determined. (27) He will make a firm covenant with many for one week. In the middle of the week he will cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease. On the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate (Christianity); and even to the full end, and that determined, wrath will be poured out on the desolate.”
Yeshua called Simon the stone (petros), in fulfillment of Zechariah 3:9; that he would be the one who would spread abomination (idolatry) throughout the land.
When you distinguish that Christianity (John, Paul and Simon) doesn't follow Yeshua; they've made him into an idol, defiling the law in multiple places, worshiping death, this is an abomination that is explained multiple times across the Tanakh.
Last edited:
Yes, these are key verses from Daniel I have earlier alluded to. For those not so familiar with this style of language it helps to consider first Daniel 9:24-25
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."
Anyone care to unravel the mystery to show how Christ fulfills the prophecy?
Forgive me please my friend Wizanda as I am moved to declare my undying love for the apostles Paul, Peter, and John and their authorative writings.
The vision is a 'marvelous work' of the lord, that he shall send his right arm, and within it people will turn him into an idol, and sin sacrifice after his visit....
The daily offering shall be removed because of him; yet not from his doing, instead it came after from John, Paul, and Simon the stone (petros).
They shall build a fake church that shall take over the whole world, and cause abomination (idolatry) to rule; even the children of the people who are 'ravenous' shall be caught out by it.
Could explain it with numerous prophets and show how it interlinks, yet to begin you'd need to have the wisdom to see how Paul contradicts Christ, and how the gospel of John isn't anything like Yeshua's character in the synoptic gospels; unfortunately if you've not recognized these bits, you'll miss the rest of it.
Brian Schuh
Well-Known Member
There are two abominations of desolation spoken by Daniel.
The first was when Antiochus Epipanes erected a statue of himself in the Holy Temple of the true God and sacrificed pigs to the statue of himself. Around about 171-164 B.C.E
The second abomination of desolation was around 68-70 C.E. when the Romans did something very similar in the holy temple.
The first was when Antiochus Epipanes erected a statue of himself in the Holy Temple of the true God and sacrificed pigs to the statue of himself. Around about 171-164 B.C.E
The second abomination of desolation was around 68-70 C.E. when the Romans did something very similar in the holy temple.
Can you show that with the text?
Brian Schuh
Well-Known Member
Of course. I just woke up and need time to look at the text. But off the top of my head, I will say that scripture doesn't repeat itself unnecessarily. Daniel mentions an abomination of desolation a total of 3 times, which could refer to 3 different events. I identified 2 commonly accepted events that look like fulfillments.Can you show that with the text?
Let me get ready for my day, and I'll look up a couple proof texts.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
are you not the Temple?
where else would abomination be a problem?
your sanctuary is held within
where else to be secure?
buddhist
Well-Known Member
Do you have proof, or how are you certain, that the Popes or Bahaullah or your "divinely appointed institutions" were divinely authorized to interpret Peter, et al, with authority?This is a very good line of questioning because for Christianity we are left with a line successors from Peter which are of course the Popes. No doubt many were very spiritual men in the first few centuries of Christianity but around the time of the emperor Constantinople matters become murky indeed
I think its worth noting that the Baha'i Faith has a clear succession of Divine Authority from its founder Baha'u'llah to Divinely appointed institutions invested with the Divine Authority to resolve difficult matters and legislate on matters not explicitly revealed in sacred texts. It is from the Baha'i writings I gain inspiration and insight along with the Holy Bible. So if I sound assured in my views it is because whenever possible I try to reflect the Holy writings available. One could refer to these Exalted Words as the Ocean of God's Revelation. Care to come for a swim?
No. Buddhism is not a religion which requires faith-based adherence to unquestionable holy texts rooted in the dusty halls of ancient history and often from a far-away land. Instead, it is a religion which requires personal knowledge of Reality and its Laws in the here-and-now. The alleged words of the Buddha and other noble disciples are merely seen as commentary on Reality and its Laws, things which we must appropriate for ourselves as personal knowledge through practice - not belief through blind faith.
buddhist
Well-Known Member
Who knows? The Temple could be the ancient Temple of Jesus' time. Or, a new Temple. Or the body. Or the soul. Or symbolic of a church, synagogue, church body, denomination, faction, or something else.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
It means to you whatever you believe it means.
Unfortunately, if he truly existed, it seems Jesus was not very skilled at communicating the clear meanings of his allegories.
Jesus is taking a quotation from the book of Daniel. It is not an allegory or "loose", it is an event that occurred in Herod's Temple and will occur in the Third, coming Temple. It's an event that is in the historical, secular record.
Please study hermeneutics before telling we Christians how to read the Bible.
Thanks.
buddhist
Well-Known Member
I have; I was a Christian for 3 decades and studied biblical Greek, including being a teacher for both adults and children.
I understand different Christians interpret this quotation as referent to Herod's Temple, the next Temple, the Roman Catholic Church, other churches, the Jews, the body, the spirit, the soul, etc ... and so, my comment.
Reggie Miller
Well-Known Member
The vision is a 'marvelous work' of the lord, that he shall send his right arm, and within it people will turn him into an idol, and sin sacrifice after his visit....
The daily offering shall be removed because of him; yet not from his doing, instead it came after from John, Paul, and Simon the stone (petros).
They shall build a fake church that shall take over the whole world, and cause abomination (idolatry) to rule; even the children of the people who are 'ravenous' shall be caught out by it.
Could explain it with numerous prophets and show how it interlinks, yet to begin you'd need to have the wisdom to see how Paul contradicts Christ, and how the gospel of John isn't anything like Yeshua's character in the synoptic gospels; unfortunately if you've not recognized these bits, you'll miss the rest of it.
Never heard any thing that weird and far out there before. Wow.
Proverbs 18:17 He who pleads his cause first seems right; until another comes and questions him.
That's like saying musicians don't enunciate their notes enough.It means to you whatever you believe it means.
Unfortunately, if he truly existed, it seems Jesus was not very skilled at communicating the clear meanings of his allegories.
buddhist
Well-Known Member
Music is also open to interpretation; one person hears a melody and feels happy, another feels sad; others find it annoying, etc.
Exactly. Leonard Cohen wrote a song called hallelujah. I have heard a huge number of versions and not one single version captures what that song is about. It starts off descriptive, it then flips into prosody in the first verse. Its so subtle, I dont think it's easily picked up on. Descriptive and prosody have distinctly different resonances. So reading say the bible that has no prosody acoustically, is nearly impossible to understand. Its as if it's a song and the melody is long forgotten. I understand Buddha as someone who remembered a something long forgotten and brought it to light. We have memories long forgotten and song taps into that in remarkable ways at times even if we don't realize it.
Reggie Miller
Well-Known Member
John 14
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.