Abortion Debate (US)

[Wildswanderer]

@Wildswanderer since you seem to NOT understand the meaning of "start your own thread" on this topic.

Here you go.

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So.... Why is it that a cadaver has more rights to its body than a woman does in the US?

"Currently, the United States (US) uses the “donation model”, a consent model for deceased organ recovery that prioritizes the rights of the individual (or of the surrogate decision maker) over the needs of society by requiring authorization or explicit consent prior to deceased organ and tissue recovery."

Ethics of deceased organ donor recovery - OPTN.

Even if I am actively dying and desperately in need of an organ transplant. I cannot receive one without the corpse's explicit consent prior to death?

Why is it that if I need a blood transfusion because I'm sick and dying, I cannot compel you (assuming it's a match) to give me your blood to save my life.

So why can't a woman decide whether or not she wants to carry a baby to term?

Why is it not her decision to choose whether or not she is physically, financially and emotionally capable of raising a healthy child?

A fetus has no fundamental "right" to my wife's body, for its own usage... without her expressed consent. And no having sex does not imply consent was given.

Dumb comparison. A woman has a choice. A dead person doesn't. Actually you make my point for me. A baby has no choice so you should not be allowed to destroy his body without his permission.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Dumb comparison. A woman has a choice. A dead person doesn't. Actually you make my point for me. A baby has no choice so you should not be allowed to destroy his body without his permission.

There are no way to solve that, because you are not the sources of all permissions and neither am I.
But you don't have my permission to be in the world, so now leave it, And if you protest, I am the correct person with the correct faith for everything including all permissions, so now leave.
That is the game as you play it.

 

[Wildswanderer]

There are no way to solve that, because you are not the sources of all permissions and neither am I.
But you don't have my permission to be in the world, so now leave it, And if you protest, I am the correct person with the correct faith for everything including all permissions, so now leave.
That is the game as you play it.

It's easy to solve. What would you like people to do to you if you were in your mother's womb?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Dumb comparison. A woman has a choice. A dead person doesn't.

We're honouring the choice of the person when they were alive.

We even keep honouring it after they're dead and no longer have any of the rights of personhood.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It's easy to solve. What would you like people to do to you if you were in your mother's womb?

That is not up to me, so I don't try to control that.

 

[Wildswanderer]

We're honouring the choice of the person when they were alive.

We even keep honouring it after they're dead and no longer have any of the rights of personhood.

Fine. What choice do you think the unborn would make? I think they want to live.

 

[Wildswanderer]

That is not up to me, so I don't try to control that.

Then you support death for the innocent.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's easy to solve. What would you like people to do to you if you were in your mother's womb?

This is the point where you really ought to step away from your computer or phone, take a moment to reflect on why you would ever want to deny your mother her humanity, and then call her to apologize.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Fine. What choice do you think the unborn would make? I think they want to live.

They can't choose, because they don't have the cognition to do such a choice. Stay in the everyday world.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Then you support death for the innocent.

I don't accept your framing.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Fine. What choice do you think the unborn would make? I think they want to live.

I think that *I* want to live right now, and nobody disputes that 45-year-old cishet white guy me is a person with all normal human rights.

None of this means that I'm entitled to my mother's organs, tissues, bodily fluids, etc. if she doesn't consent to give them.

Edit: have you called your mother yet?

 

[metis]

Why is it that many decry "government overreach" and yet want that same government to tell a woman what she must do with that which is inside her?

 

[Koldo]

@Wildswanderer since you seem to NOT understand the meaning of "start your own thread" on this topic.

Here you go.

------

So.... Why is it that a cadaver has more rights to its body than a woman does in the US?

"Currently, the United States (US) uses the “donation model”, a consent model for deceased organ recovery that prioritizes the rights of the individual (or of the surrogate decision maker) over the needs of society by requiring authorization or explicit consent prior to deceased organ and tissue recovery."

Ethics of deceased organ donor recovery - OPTN.

Even if I am actively dying and desperately in need of an organ transplant. I cannot receive one without the corpse's explicit consent prior to death?

Why is it that if I need a blood transfusion because I'm sick and dying, I cannot compel you (assuming it's a match) to give me your blood to save my life.

So why can't a woman decide whether or not she wants to carry a baby to term?

Why is it not her decision to choose whether or not she is physically, financially and emotionally capable of raising a healthy child?

A fetus has no fundamental "right" to my wife's body, for its own usage... without her expressed consent. And no having sex does not imply consent was given.

The intriguing part is that I would support both mandatory blood donation and mandatory organ donation by the deceased if/when they are actually needed.

 

[Koldo]

I think that *I* want to live right now, and nobody disputes that 45-year-old cishet white guy me is a person with all normal human rights.

None of this means that I'm entitled to my mother's organs, tissues, bodily fluids, etc. if she doesn't consent to give them.

Edit: have you called your mother yet?

The easy answer is to bite the silver bullet and claim that people have different rights based on their biological needs... but that would entail supporting universal healthcare... So I suppose it is not a good answer for many people.

 

[The Hammer]

And since you do not seem to understand or care that yet another thread on the topic will achieve nothing, here we are.

They were off topic on a thread I made that was about something completely seperate from this. I'm not really keen on sitting here and arguing this myself. I just wanted them out of my thread with this stuff.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

They were off topic on a thread I made that was about something completely seperate from this. I'm not really keen on sitting here and arguing this myself. I just wanted them out of my thread with this stuff.

Been there / done that. My apologies.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I think that *I* want to live right now, and nobody disputes that 45-year-old cishet white guy me is a person with all normal human rights.

None of this means that I'm entitled to my mother's organs, tissues, bodily fluids, etc. if she doesn't consent to give them.

Edit: have you called your mother yet?

My mother is dead, but yes I talked to her last week.

 

[Wildswanderer]

They can't choose, because they don't have the cognition to do such a choice. Stay in the everyday world.

Using that paradigm, mentally ill people can be shot on sight. .

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

My mother is dead, but yes I talked to her last week.

And did you apologize?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Using that paradigm, mentally ill people can be shot on sight. .

Yeah, that is one possible social construct. Or for my tribe of "crazy" people be locked up. I know.

I don't have the Objective Truth to this.