Abortion - is it wrong?

[Raymond Sheen]

Have you booked in for your vasectomy yet?

It's easy to pass judgment when it isn't your body being affected. Put your money where your mouth is and call your doctor.

I'm not in a sexual relationship as such, but if I were I would do just that in the case that I wanted to prevent unwanted pregnancy. To say that abortion is exclusively a woman's health issue is a denial of the responsibility of the man as well as the body of the growing child.

Ultimately the woman is responsible for her body so she has the responsibility to safeguard herself against unwanted pregnancy but that isn't to say the man has no say in the matter. A responsible man will know this in advance of sexual activity. The two decide to have sex irresponsibly without an understanding of the possibility of pregnancy results in an abortion and no one thinks abortion is a good idea outside of that irresponsible results culminating in the death of an unborn child.

The issue of abortion doesn't begin at conception it begins before conception.

 

[blackout]

It's always easy to tell others what they have to do,
when you are in no way responsible for the consequences.
When you yourSelf do absolutely nothing of substance to ACTUALLY and effectively help
alleviate the fallout of the very thing YOU insisted on.
When it is not YOUR life on the line.
Not YOUR health,
YOUR sanity,
or YOUR ability to cope.
When it is not YOUR providence
or your children's money
lacking daily
on account of the decision/s
YOU made for somebody else.

So easy to sit up on a high horse
and tell everyone else
how they need to put their lives and mental/emotional stability at risk.
Especially as these risks will NEVER EVER EVEN POSSIBLY BE YOUR OWN.
The generals, sticking the women out on the front lines,
to bleed, suffer and die. With no recourse.

 

[Me Myself]

It's always easy to tell others what they have to do,
when you are in no way responsible for the consequences.
When you yourSelf do absolutely nothing of substance to ACTUALLY and effectively help
alleviate the fallout of the very thing YOU insisted on.
When it is not YOUR life on the line.
Not YOUR health,
YOUR sanity,
or YOUR ability to cope.
When it is not YOUR providence
or your children's money
lacking daily
on account of the decision/s
YOU made for somebody else.

So easy to sit up on a high horse
and tell everyone else
how they need to put their lives and mental/emotional stability at risk.
Especially as these risks will NEVER EVER EVEN POSSIBLY BE YOUR OWN.
The generals, sticking the women out on the front lines,
to bleed, suffer and die. With no recourse.

Most man AND women in ecuador agree with respecting a child in it´s mother´s womb.

Men are hardly untouched nor I am untouched because I am not the "wait until marriage" guy and neither I want to have a child before marriage. Having a child would mean I am responsabable for it and I wouldn´t run, most higher to middle class men in Ecuador wouldn´t.

So it´s not like pro-life is easier for everyone, but supporting life doesn´t need to be easy to be right. It is too much of a basic moral need.

 

[Drolefille]

I don't agree with that sentiment. Procreation is a union of two, both of whom should be responsible for their actions. The woman negates half of that responsibility within that union. If the proper precautions are not taken from both the responsibility lies with both partners in that union.

Why do you think that getting an abortion isn't taking responsibilty? Sometimes it is the most responsible thing one can do.

Ahhhh . . . on a human scale that sounds like eugenics.

No it's usually a mother with two kids knowing she can't afford a third.

I'm not in a sexual relationship as such, but if I were I would do just that in the case that I wanted to prevent unwanted pregnancy. To say that abortion is exclusively a woman's health issue is a denial of the responsibility of the man as well as the body of the growing child.

Ultimately the woman is responsible for her body so she has the responsibility to safeguard herself against unwanted pregnancy but that isn't to say the man has no say in the matter. A responsible man will know this in advance of sexual activity. The two decide to have sex irresponsibly without an understanding of the possibility of pregnancy results in an abortion and no one thinks abortion is a good idea outside of that irresponsible results culminating in the death of an unborn child.

The issue of abortion doesn't begin at conception it begins before conception.

Abortion affects a woman's body, and is ultimately her responsiblity. If it were possible to remove an embryo the size of a pencil eraser from a uterus the size of a small grapefruit and implant it in a man, then he can take his share of that responsibility. They both can act pre pregnancy, but only she gets to control how her body is used.

Otherwise the next time a man gets a tapeworm he should let it live there because he should have been more careful.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Why do you think that getting an abortion isn't taking responsibilty? Sometimes it is the most responsible thing one can do.

Sometimes or always?

 

[Me Myself]

They both can act pre pregnancy, but only she gets to control how her body is used.

The problem it´s not her control over her body, but her killing of her own child´s body.

 

[Quiddity]

The focus is just too strong on both sides to make progress. Pro-life see a life coming to an end and if (yeah, big IF, I know) they are right, they are not fighting strong enough in my opinion. It's just hard to justify such a thing in my world view.

On the other hand the pro-choice see a total invasion of privacy and all sorts of anti-women connotations and insensitivity.

There is no compromise.

The life of a human will take priority over the feelings of a women. That isn't intended to dimiss them....so don't go there.

I said what I said and I've been a part of enough of these dialogues to know that it will go no where.

 

[Me Myself]

The life of a human will take priority over the feelings of a women. That isn't intended to dimiss them....so don't go there.

That.

 

[PolyHedral]

The problem it´s not her control over her body, but her killing of her own child´s body.

In the early stages, the child doesn't have a body. It never has a self-sufficient one until its actually born.

 

[Me Myself]

In the early stages, the child doesn't have a body. It never has a self-sufficient one until its actually born.

It´s a tiny in-development body . The very fact that it is not self sufficient is why we must take better care of it.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It´s a tiny in-development body . The very fact that it is not self sufficient is why we must take better care of it.

Unless the mother will be unwilling or unable to take care of it once it's actually a sentient being. In that case, best for everyone to get rid of the mass of cells before they reach that stage.

 

[Me Myself]

Unless the mother will be unwilling or unable to take care of it once it's actually a sentient being. In that case, best for everyone to get rid of the mass of cells before they reach that stage.

Even better yet, let´s just take care of it.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Even better yet, let´s just take care of it.

I assume you've adopted several unwanted children in support of this idea, right? Otherwise, you're just blabbing away, and anything you say is hypocritical and empty.

 

[Me Myself]

I assume you've adopted several unwanted children in support of this idea, right? Otherwise, you're just blabbing away, and anything you say is hypocritical and empty.

That´s like saying you have to be a cop to support city order.

Or that you have to donate food to african children to say hunger in africa is wrong.

If I get a woman pregnant and she doesn´t wan my child, Then it will be hipocritical to not take care of it if offered the chance so he can live.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

If I get a woman pregnant and she doesn´t wan my child, Then it will be hipocritical to not take care of it if offered the chance so he can live.

So you haven't adopted any babies that aren't wanted or whom the mother can't take care of? Then why do you think you have any say in what other women do with their bodies?

 

[Me Myself]

So you haven't adopted any babies that aren't wanted or whom the mother can't take care of? Then why do you think you have any say in what other women do with their bodies?

Why not? I have every right to promote what I think it´s right.

If I have a children I will take care of him/her, I expect the same from others.

 

[Raymond Sheen]

In the early stages, the child doesn't have a body. It never has a self-sufficient one until its actually born.

Completely irrelevant. You wouldn't use the same reasoning for the HIV virus. You don't rationalize the HIV virus as a woman's or man's issue exclusively or delegate responsibility to one or the other. Its a mutual responsibility and the only need for abortion, aside from the rare occasion of rape resulting in pregnancy, is sexual irresponsibility.

I do agree that it is a personal (though mutual) responsibility and due to imperfect human nature it is a delicate position for society and law to prevent more damage which occurs without medical supervision. But don't get in the position in the first place.

It tends to be an emotional and political issue.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Why not? I have every right to promote what I think it´s right.

If I have a children I will take care of him/her, I expect the same from others.

You can expect all you want. The fact of the matter there are many children born that are unwanted or who cannot be taken care of. By forcing pregnant women to give birth, this number would only increase. If you're for forcing women to give birth, then you have to be willing to take up the needed slack and care for babies that aren't cared for. Otherwise, you're not only full of crap, but also forcing misery on millions of unwanted children because of your denial of reality.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... the only need for abortion, aside from the rare occasion of rape resulting in pregnancy, is sexual irresponsibility.

It's always nice to get a sound medical opinion from a credible source. Thanks.

 

[Me Myself]

You can expect all you want. The fact of the matter there are many children born that are unwanted or who cannot be taken care of. By forcing pregnant women to give birth, this number would only increase. If you're for forcing women to give birth, then you have to be willing to take up the needed slack and care for babies that aren't cared for. Otherwise, you're not only full of crap, but also forcing misery on millions of unwanted children because of your denial of reality.

You of course would approve bombing Africa, right?

Becaus if you don´t approve and you are not sending food to hungry children there, then you are not only full of crap but also forcing misery on millions of children because of your denial of reality.