Abortion is murder

[Father Heathen]

Do I detect sarcasm?

Do I have any interest in your opinion on this matter because as I said I am not open to argument myself on the subject....LOL

The answers to those questions are respectively Yes and No.

Who will shed tears for Father Heathen?

The point is that when you create a thread just to make a statement, at least try to include a little depth and substance to give your post some weight and meaning. It would go a lot further in whatever you're trying to prove. You dislike abortion. Okay, and? No effort to try support your stance and sway the opposition and undecided? If I made a post that said simply "atheism rules and theism drools" it would amount to nothing more than spam and trolling, right?

 

[Tau]

The point is that when you create a thread just to make a statement, at least try to include a little depth and substance to give your post some weight and meaning. It would go a lot further in whatever you're trying to prove. You dislike abortion. Okay, and? No effort to try support your stance and sway the opposition and undecided? If I made a post that said simply "atheism rules and theism drools" it would amount to nothing more than spam and trolling, right?

What would be the point dear sir, even though I have made dozens of replies, defending my viewpoint, on this thread?

If those that do not recognise that an unborn baby is a valid human being due all the legal protections accorded to any other citizen then the battle lines are drawn, IMHO a refusal to acknowledge that unborns have any right to exist at all illustrates in that individual a contempt for human life, material selfishness and possibly a grossly inflated sensitivity to the rights of women.

If you do not know why abortion is wrong then in my mind you cannot know probably, I would doubt you had the empathic ability to see it from the eyes of someone who was himself due to be terminated at 18 weeks when luckily for him his mother's doctor (a pro lifer) deliberately delayed the process until the abortion window was past and the mother had to have baby Tau.

We know abortion 'tortures' women who have the procedure, many suffer from psychological problems after, I ve met em, I know, again a symptom something is deeply wrong with the practice of elective abortion.

Just because we can doesn't necessarily mean we should....there are alternatives.

 

[Father Heathen]

What would be the point dear sir

If there wasn't a point this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[Tau]

If there wasn't a point this thread wouldn't exist.

Whats the point trying to convert you all, I am just making a statement, thats as far as I care.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

... If those do not recognise that an unborn baby is a valid human being due all the legal protections accorded to any other citizen then the battle line is drawn,

You begin by begging the question of the debate (when a fetus becomes a human, with full rights). Not a good start, at all.

IMHO a refusal to acknowledge that unborns have any right to exist at all illustrates in that individual a contempt for human life, material selfishness ...

and your opinion has no more weight in this debate than mine. And in my opinion, anyone that wishes to dictate to another human being what they can and cannot do with their own body is a proponent of slavery, showing total contempt for the person being enslaved, and practicing their own form of selfishness.

and possibly a grossly inflated sensitivity to the rights of women.

If I didn't know better, I would swear that your are going for the ironic, comedic effect here.
The very essence of your position robs a woman of her rights, to impose YOUR sense of morals on her. It is YOU sir, that is insensitive to the rights of women - not I.

If you do not know why abortion is wrong then in my mind you cannot know probably,

Some solid logic there.

I would doubt you had the empathic ability to see it from the eyes of someone who was himself due to be terminated at 18 weeks when luckily for him his mother's doctor (a pro lifer) deliberately delayed the process until the abortion window was past and the mother had to have baby Tau.

While I can (with my sense of empathy) appreciate your gratitude toward the doctor that decieved your mother, and gave you the opportunity to exist, I don't see the doctor in a bright light. I see him as having betrayed the trust of his patient.

We know abortion 'tortures' women who have the procedure,

I know no such thing. If you wish to make this claim, I will insist that we also know that being forced to have a baby that one is not prepared to care for causing women excruciating mental anguish, along with a host of other problems.

... many suffer from psychological problems after, I ve met em, I know, again a symptom something is deeply wrong with the practice of elective abortion.

Something is deeply wrong with forcing another human being to bend to your will, simply because you believe that you know what is best for them. Slavery is wrong.

Just because we can doesn't necessarily mean we should....there are alternatives.

We can agree here. There are alternatives, and I would submit that the vast majority of abortions occur only after long hours of reflection by the mother - and not as some type of whim to fulfill an evening with entertainment.

 

[logician]

If we lived on a planet that was so overpopulated that millions were starving due to lack of resources, and each additional person just added to the misery, would anti-abortiionsts still be for abortion - i.e. if people would die if more were born, would abortion then become OK?

An interesting philosophical question. Do the living have more rights than the unborn?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

An interesting philosophical question. Do the living have more rights than the unborn?

Counterposing 'living' and 'unborn' was less than clever. Interesting philosophical questions are typically better formed.

 

[Nessa Nenharma]

Counterposing 'living' and 'unborn' was less than clever. Interesting philosophical questions are typically better formed.

On the contrary, I found his post quite clever and ON TOPIC. Your post, on the other hand, had nothing to do with what is being debated here. Therefore, your post is the one that is "less than clever" seeing as how you didn't offer ANYTHING to this thread other than to attack someone for a question they posed. If you didn't have anything insightful to add other than trying to degrade someone maybe you shouldn't have bothered posting at all :no:.

Now to the question that was asked. I believe that the living do have more rights than the unborn. They are an actual part of society, where as the unborn has yet to be recieved into society.

:bb:

Nessa

 

[Sonic247]

Regardless of the fact that you could kill yourself from drinking, I was only talking about going out on the town once, not an alcoholic. You mean to tell me you have never went out clubbing with friends and had drinks?

The point of my post was that while she intentionally drank, it was not to have a miscarriage of a pregnancy she had no knowledge of. Therefore, you can't fault EVERY abortion and claim the woman has murdered her "child".

I must be confused about baseball then, I thought when you hit a homerun you weren't actually throwing balls at people but batting balls as far away from yourself as possible:sarcastic. But I do agree that someone could get beemed in the head by a homerun hit (it's one of the reasons I don't take my boys to pro baseball games), but that is off topic.

:bb:

Nessa

I just said that because what people do alot of the time is find a case where abortion is necessary, or in this case, unintentional and then say that is why abortion isn't wrong. But the majority of abortions aren't like that. And if abortion was like murder those cases would just be like the person dying unintentionally from the hit baseball: technically the one who hit the baseball killed the one hit by it, in that his actual physical movement resulted in the death. But he is not a murderer.

 

[Willamena]

You begin by begging the question of the debate (when a fetus becomes a human, with full rights). Not a good start, at all.

Well, that's your debate, though, not Tau's. Tau's only purpose (as stated in the thread above yours) is to voice an opinion.

 

[Willamena]

If we lived on a planet that was so overpopulated that millions were starving due to lack of resources, and each additional person just added to the misery, would anti-abortiionsts still be for abortion - i.e. if people would die if more were born, would abortion then become OK?

An interesting philosophical question. Do the living have more rights than the unborn?

Oh! I saw that on "Star Trek".

Are anti-abortionists generally the ones who are "for abortion"? Maybe need an edit, there.

 

[Nessa Nenharma]

I just said that because what people do alot of the time is find a case where abortion is necessary, or in this case, unintentional and then say that is why abortion isn't wrong. But the majority of abortions aren't like that. And if abortion was like murder those cases would just be like the person dying unintentionally from the hit baseball: technically the one who hit the baseball killed the one hit by it, in that his actual physical movement resulted in the death. But he is not a murderer.

The only reason I included the hypothesis of drinking to the point of causing a miscarriage wasn't to say "that is why abortion isn't wrong", it was to point out that it isn't like murder at all. I would have commited manslaughter had I hit a home run causing someone's death (and I'm sure I would be charged with it as well ).

If they did start charging women with murder for abortions, I would expect to see more people claiming unborn fetuses on their taxes as write offs, or claiming them for welfare and child support. What a mess THAT would be.

:bb:

Nessa

 

[Neo-Logic]

BS. You could have posted an OP which invited respectful debate. Instead you chose to post flamebait.

Agreed.

Original poster does not satisfy his burden of proof. Instead, he had no proof - period. An opinion of two lines supported by nothing leaving up for a vague and general meangingless discussion of absolute bull****ness. But then I don't blame him - many people do these threads where they say something vague with no good arguments and everyone argues about different points - non first established by original poster like it should've been and the thread goes on for pages with everyone arguing on different points. It's really stupid.

Great way to increase post numbers I suppose.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Counterposing 'living' and 'unborn' was less than clever. ...

On the contrary, I found his post quite clever and ON TOPIC.

Then perhaps you should check your cleverometer and your Caps Lock. The fact remains that to presume that "living" and "unborn" are counterposed states preempts rather than promotes the discussion.

 

[Willamena]

Now to the question that was asked. I believe that the living do have more rights than the unborn. They are an actual part of society, where as the unborn has yet to be recieved into society.

But that suggests that the unborn are not living.

 

[Nessa Nenharma]

Then perhaps you should check your cleverometer and your Caps Lock. The fact remains that to presume that "living" and "unborn" are counterposed states preempts rather than promotes the discussion.

My caps lock is just fine thanks, seeing as how I turned it off and on (missed that huh?). My clevermeter is not part of the debate of this thread and therefore shouldn't be called into question. Dirty tactics such as name calling is poor form for debate. (maybe being a politician is in your future? :yes: ).

Sorry but I fail to see where anything you've said has contributed to "promoting discussion". Perhaps you should have suggested he restate the question rather than resorting to calling someone's cleverness into question. Seems like poor form to me.

:bb:

Nessa

 

[Willamena]

Dirty tactics such as name calling is poor form for debate. (maybe being a politician is in your future? :yes: ).

Isn't that name-calling, too?

 

[Nessa Nenharma]

But that suggests that the unborn are not living.

You are right...it does suggest that. Maybe I should reword it. I know the unborn are living. By saying living I simply meant being an active part of society, not as in alive or dead. For example: I live near the beach, doesn't mean I am alive at the beach, it is simply a way of putting me in relation to everyone else.

:bb:

Nessa

 

[Nessa Nenharma]

Isn't that name-calling, too?

Not as I see it...politican is a career. Besides I didn't "call" him a politician, meerly suggested he look into it

:bb:

Nessa

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I know the unborn are living.

Good.