Abortion

[Saint Frankenstein]

Just give kids those electronic babies who scream for 20 hours out of the day and force them to watch Barney all day long. No one will want sex ever again.

Or you could just be like me: be a nurse and wipe enough asses and you'll never want one ever.

Lol. Or just get sterilized and then you can have your cake and eat it too!

 

[SomeRandom]

At what age is sexual behavior safe for non-married young people in school? Please be specific. I wasn't ready for the fallout myself at age 18...

How can one be specific to a question like that? It's like asking when specifically girls are ready to handle menstruation. (Pro tip, the first is always the most awkward.) It's different for everyone. As long as there's a support system in place for the kid, with honest legitimate information and people willing to be upfront and frank about the facts with them, it's easier for people to cope with such things. Going back to the menstruation angle, if you don't tell ladies at a young age exactly what to expect and how to go about "experimenting" (the ladies on this forum should know what I'm talking about when I say this) then chances are that no matter the age they start, they will panic and won't know what to do. Because no one bothered to properly inform them.
Honesty is the best policy, after all.

 

[leibowde84]

How can one be specific to a question like that? It's like asking when specifically girls are ready to handle menstruation. (Pro tip, the first is always the most awkward.) It's different for everyone. As long as there's a support system in place for the kid, with honest legitimate information and people willing to be upfront and frank about the facts with them, it's easier for people to cope with such things. Going back to the menstruation angle, if you don't tell ladies at a young age exactly what to expect and how to go about "experimenting" (the ladies on this forum should know what I'm talking about when I say this) then chances are that no matter the age they start, they will panic and won't know what to do. Because no one bothered to properly inform them.
Honesty is the best policy, after all.

I agree. The worst thing we can do to our children is force our own ignorance and misunderstandings on them.

 

[leibowde84]

How can one be specific to a question like that? It's like asking when specifically girls are ready to handle menstruation. (Pro tip, the first is always the most awkward.) It's different for everyone. As long as there's a support system in place for the kid, with honest legitimate information and people willing to be upfront and frank about the facts with them, it's easier for people to cope with such things. Going back to the menstruation angle, if you don't tell ladies at a young age exactly what to expect and how to go about "experimenting" (the ladies on this forum should know what I'm talking about when I say this) then chances are that no matter the age they start, they will panic and won't know what to do. Because no one bothered to properly inform them.
Honesty is the best policy, after all.

We have to do the best we can, providing the best advice we can with the caveat that we could be wrong. At a certain point, as with every generation, it will become their responsibility to teach us.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I didn't mean in school. I mean that we should be honest with kids. Sexual activity is not unhealthy when done safely. So, I think we should teach those at risk those safety precautions rather than stressing abstinence as the only way to go. Kids will easily figure out that isn't true.

You place a lot of faith in the wisdom of children.

I'm not saying they would have sex in school. I'm asking you how old a child is ready for sexual practice with others?

 

[leibowde84]

You place a lot of faith in the wisdom of children.

I'm not saying they would have sex in school. I'm asking you how old a child is ready for sexual practice with others?

I can't really say, as I am not an expert in child development, but I certainly don't think it is relevant. The relevant question is when DO a substantial amount of adolescents start having sex. Before that point, it is critical to make sure that those kids have been taught "safe-sex" practices so that they understand the risks and how to mitigate them reasonably.

All in all, I think that abstinence is an unrealistic expectation for kids over 17-18. Many are going to have sex whether that be due to peer pressure, poor decision making skills, intoxication, and/or straight up stupidity. You stated that I place a lot of faith in the wisdom of children. Well, that might be the case, but when it comes to decision making (not wisdom), it is clear that adolescents aren't going to make the right ones all the time. We should provide them ways in which risks associated with sex can be mitigated.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

You place a lot of faith in the wisdom of children.

I'm not saying they would have sex in school. I'm asking you how old a child is ready for sexual practice with others?

You have a lot of faith that kids won't have sex because you forbade it...

 

[SomeRandom]

You have a lot of faith that kids won't have sex because you forbade it...

Christ even my School Chaplain wasn't as naive as that!! Lol.

 

[JoStories]

You place a lot of faith in the wisdom of children.

I'm not saying they would have sex in school. I'm asking you how old a child is ready for sexual practice with others?

It varies but with the onset of puberty that causes all the relevant hormones to be in play and once they are in play, teens can be sexually active. The age can be as young as 10 or as old as even 17 or more. But once they are in play, its important that the teen or even preteen be prepared to know what to do with those drives. We should be proactive in teaching our children to be aware of what sex is and how to prevent unwanted pregnancies with appropriate birth control. My mother put me on birth control at 15. It was the right thing to do.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

Abortion is in Islam is only allowed when the mother's life is in danger or there are serious problems with the foetus.

The current cut off point in the UK for abortion is 24 weeks, which is absolutely absurd, forgetting the whole argument of the soul and when life begins, a t24 weeks, a baby has developing lungs, a beating heart, skin, muscle, bones, hair and is alive in every sense of the word. If born at this time, it would have a slim chance of survival outside the womb with effective medical treatment.

We have people campaigning for animal rights and the rights of plants but about the rights of a human child?

 

[viole]

Abortion is in Islam is only allowed when the mother's life is in danger or there are serious problems with the foetus.

The current cut off point in the UK for abortion is 24 weeks, which is absolutely absurd, forgetting the whole argument of the soul and when life begins, a t24 weeks, a baby has developing lungs, a beating heart, skin, muscle, bones, hair and is alive in every sense of the word. If born at this time, it would have a slim chance of survival outside the womb with effective medical treatment.

We have people campaigning for animal rights and the rights of plants but about the rights of a human child?

You seem to indicate that killing a fetus which is 24 weeks old is absurd (immoral, whatever). Fine. I tend to agree. 24 weeks seems pretty late.

But my question is: is killing a fetus that is one day old, equally absurd (immoral, whatever), in your opinion?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

You seem to indicate that killing a fetus which is 24 weeks old is absurd (immoral, whatever). Fine. I tend to agree. 24 weeks seems pretty late.

But my question is: is killing a fetus that is one day old, equally absurd (immoral, whatever), in your opinion?

Ciao

- viole

Ciao Ciao, come stai?

But anyway, yes, I do believe it's immoral but that is a personal, religious belief of mine. However, we are told, in modern ,secular, western society, science is all important, which is why I mentioned the 24 weeks limit, which any basic, college level biology student would know to be rather late. The cut off point, if abortion is to be kept legal, should be much, much earlier.

 

[viole]

Ciao Ciao, come stai?

Bene. E tu?

But anyway, yes, I do believe it's immoral but that is a personal, religious belief of mine.

Do you believe it is immoral, or do you believe in something that says it is immoral?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

Bene. E tu?



Do you believe it is immoral, or do you believe in something that says it is immoral?

Ciao

- viole

Bene, grazie (ok that's all I know lol)

I believe abortion, outside of necessity, is immoral but it's also part of my religion, then again, religion influences all my personal beliefs, as religions and political/secular/feminist ideologies influence other people. However, having said all that, there is something which makes me follow the rulings of my religion i.e. the fact that they are in line with inherent, human morality. We all know it's wrong to kill, even a psychopath but he chooses not to follow his morality but to delve into his own impulses and desires. It is the same with abortion, if anyone and everyone sat down to think about what abortion implies, especially with the 24 week cut off point, our conscience should be horrified but because certain "modern" ideologies tell us to ignore that and just dive into what is wrong, we follow that without a second thought, although our personal conscience is likely on fire.

Having said all that, as a Muslim, I am also told to follow the laws of the land and respect them ,as long as they do not impinge upon me as a Muslim and the law of abortion does not. As a doctor, one day, I may have to carry out such an act, who knows? I would not be happy for it and I would quietly make prayer for both the mother and unborn child but it is something I'd have to ... or go practice medicine somewhere else, which probably seems likely with the way this government is acting towards the medical profession.

Anyway, that's my two pence on all this.

 

[prometheus11]

Imagine you are in a burning building and can only save two of the four: a two year old, a twenty-week old fetus in an artificial womb/machine, a three week old fetus in a similar machine, and a 24 hour "old" fertilized embryo.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The truth is that runaway teen pregnancy rates didn't exist pre-Roe v. Wade in America. Many people graduated college into the late 60s as virgins. No.

The birth rate for mothers aged 15-19 in the US peaked in the late 50s. The rate of teenagers having kids is lower now than at any point since statistics started being kept:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db89.pdf

Edit:

The impact of strong pregnancy prevention messages directed to teenagers has been credited with the birth rate declines (9–11). Recently released data from the National Survey of Family Growth, conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), have shown increased use of contraception at first initiation of sex and use of dual methods of contraception (that is, condoms and hormonal methods) among sexually active female and male teenagers. These trends may have contributed to the recent birth rate declines (12).

 

[BilliardsBall]

I can't really say, as I am not an expert in child development, but I certainly don't think it is relevant. The relevant question is when DO a substantial amount of adolescents start having sex. Before that point, it is critical to make sure that those kids have been taught "safe-sex" practices so that they understand the risks and how to mitigate them reasonably.

All in all, I think that abstinence is an unrealistic expectation for kids over 17-18. Many are going to have sex whether that be due to peer pressure, poor decision making skills, intoxication, and/or straight up stupidity. You stated that I place a lot of faith in the wisdom of children. Well, that might be the case, but when it comes to decision making (not wisdom), it is clear that adolescents aren't going to make the right ones all the time. We should provide them ways in which risks associated with sex can be mitigated.

So... sex education is for kids over 17-18? Be consistent. Be reasoned.

 

[BilliardsBall]

The birth rate for mothers aged 15-19 in the US peaked in the late 50s. The rate of teenagers having kids is lower now than at any point since statistics started being kept:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db89.pdf

Edit:

Um, the birth rate peaking had to do with the reduced numbers of abortions!

 

[leibowde84]

So... sex education is for kids over 17-18? Be consistent. Be reasoned.

No. It has to start well before that age (say 13-15) so that they are prepared to make a reasoned decision when the time comes. My point is that it is always better to reason with kids, respectfully providing them with the truth and personal experiences that have helped you, so that they make the decision on their own rather than being forced into compliance out of fear or something.

 

[BilliardsBall]

No. It has to start well before that age (say 13-15) so that they are prepared to make a reasoned decision when the time comes. My point is that it is always better to reason with kids, respectfully providing them with the truth and personal experiences that have helped you, so that they make the decision on their own rather than being forced into compliance out of fear or something.

Okay, what would you tell a 13-15 year old about drugs, rape, murder, sodomy, etc. so that they can make reasoned decisions about those things?