Abortion

[BilliardsBall]

You have been presented in this very thread links to studies that show you are just plain flat out wrong.
Your denial of the facts do not make the facts go away.

Luckily, there is little need for me or for you to have to present peer-reviewed studies on this fact:

Kids need consistent messages regarding healthy lifestyles to live healthy.

 

[McBell]

Luckily, there is little need for me or for you to have to present peer-reviewed studies on this fact:

Kids need consistent messages regarding healthy lifestyles to live healthy.

Thank you for further demonstrating my point.

 

[columbus]

Please don't put words in my mouth. Abstinence teaching is more effective, especially when combined with appropriate sex ed, than letting kids learn about sex on their own.

You have been presented in this very thread links to studies that show you are just plain flat out wrong.
Your denial of the facts do not make the facts go away.

I don't think so. What BB said makes perfect sense. Combining teaching about how sex works with why it is a bad idea to do it before you're ready is a good thing.
There are no studies showing he is flat out wrong.
Tom

 

[SomeRandom]

Please don't put words in my mouth. Abstinence teaching is more effective, especially when combined with appropriate sex ed, than letting kids learn about sex on their own.

I don't think so. What BB said makes perfect sense. Combining teaching about how sex works with why it is a bad idea to do it before you're ready is a good thing.
There are no studies showing he is flat out wrong.
Tom

Yeah that's exactly what comprehensive safe sexual education includes in it's curriculum. And BB has been arguing against CSSE in favour of abstinence teaching (which is often included in many a safe sex curriculum anyway.)

Then the response was to show that abstinence only teaching which is what he appeared to be advocating for was ultimately useless and failed massively.
I have no idea what he's advocating anymore.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Please don't put words in my mouth. Abstinence teaching is more effective, especially when combined with appropriate sex ed, than letting kids learn about sex on their own.

I don't think so. What BB said makes perfect sense. Combining teaching about how sex works with why it is a bad idea to do it before you're ready is a good thing.
There are no studies showing he is flat out wrong.
Tom

Some of us are a tad confused considering that BB was previously arguing that abstinence teaching PLUS comprehensive sex ed sends mixed messages to children. Now he appears to be saying differently.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Just give kids those electronic babies who scream for 20 hours out of the day and force them to watch Barney all day long. No one will want sex ever again.

Or you could just be like me: be a nurse and wipe enough asses and you'll never want one ever.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Please don't put words in my mouth. Abstinence teaching is more effective, especially when combined with appropriate sex ed, than letting kids learn about sex on their own.

I don't think so. What BB said makes perfect sense. Combining teaching about how sex works with why it is a bad idea to do it before you're ready is a good thing.
There are no studies showing he is flat out wrong.
Tom

Please don't take me for anti-academic when I say "Studies/Shmudies" but the liberal persons here seem not to notice the ENDEMIC rates of teen pregnancy, STDs, abortions, and human pain that have EXPLODED since the advent of modern "sex education" and abortion on demand. Our young people are being killed via abortion and being killed by unhealthy behaviors.

 

[leibowde84]

Luckily, there is little need for me or for you to have to present peer-reviewed studies on this fact:

Kids need consistent messages regarding healthy lifestyles to live healthy.

This is not true. And, you haven't provided any support for this claim. People are different, kids included. Each kid needs specific and individualized attention and instruction. Some kids learn math one way, some learn it better another way. Some kids respond better to visuals, some to audibles.

And, in this context, some kids will do better knowing their options, and considering what is right for them. Some kids will be better off being forced or coerced into behaving well.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Please don't take me for anti-academic when I say "Studies/Shmudies" but the liberal persons here seem not to notice the ENDEMIC rates of teen pregnancy, STDs, abortions, and human pain that have EXPLODED since the advent of modern "sex education" and abortion on demand. Our young people are being killed via abortion and being killed by unhealthy behaviors.

This is the very reason why studies are important. Because they tell us that abstinence-only education increases the rates of STDs and unwanted pregnancies. As discussed many times throughout the thread.

More liberal places like Europe for instance, who are arguably more sexually open and expressive (have you ever seen a French film?) have lower teen pregnancy and STDs rates than the US.

 

[columbus]

Please don't take me for anti-academic when I say "Studies/Shmudies"

Oh trust me, I am well aware of how statistical fallacies are used in "studies" by agenda driven research. I see this all the time, from all over the place.
Frankly, I think the single biggest reason for the explosion in children born to irresponsible parents is birth control and access to abortion. It seems counter intuitive. But a large number of irresponsible people now feel entitled to risky sex. Including people who are insufficiently responsible to use the birth control that is easily accessible.
It is not the only reason by a long shot. Media representation of sex as a right and a commodity is another. Lack of parental monitoring is another. The list is pretty long.
Tom

 

[BilliardsBall]

This is not true. And, you haven't provided any support for this claim. People are different, kids included. Each kid needs specific and individualized attention and instruction. Some kids learn math one way, some learn it better another way. Some kids respond better to visuals, some to audibles.

And, in this context, some kids will do better knowing their options, and considering what is right for them. Some kids will be better off being forced or coerced into behaving well.

Their options include healthy behavior and unhealthy behavior here. How is unhealthy behavior "right" or "right for them"?

 

[BilliardsBall]

This is the very reason why studies are important. Because they tell us that abstinence-only education increases the rates of STDs and unwanted pregnancies. As discussed many times throughout the thread.

More liberal places like Europe for instance, who are arguably more sexually open and expressive (have you ever seen a French film?) have lower teen pregnancy and STDs rates than the US.

And higher rates of alcoholism and depression and lower life expectancies.

 

[leibowde84]

Their options include healthy behavior and unhealthy behavior here. How is unhealthy behavior "right" or "right for them"?

Sexual activity is healthy behavior, as long as it is done safely. And, kids don't respond well to orders that they don't understand the reasoning behind. It is ALWAYS better to educate kids with all available options and dangers instead of coercing them into abstinence.

We can't lie to kids and say that sex outside of marriage is unhealthy. They will figure out the truth and very soon will loose respect for those in charge. That is exactly what happens with marijuana these days. Kids are told that it's so dangerous. They try it and find out it's not a big deal. And, since it is equated with actually dangerous substances, they think those will be fine too.

We should just be honest with our children. Advice is one thing, but purposely withholding information about safe-sex is tantamount to abuse.

 

[leibowde84]

And higher rates of alcoholism and depression and lower life expectancies.

Source? Everything I have seen says the opposite, but I'm interested in where you are getting your information. I, of course, know that consumption-wise, europeans drink more than Americans. But, that has nothing to do with alcoholism. It seems to be known that Americans have a much bigger problem with binge drinking.

 

[SkepticThinker]

And higher rates of alcoholism and depression and lower life expectancies.

Actually it appears that most European countries surpass the US in life expectancy. I don't have time to look up alcoholism and depression rates at the moment.

Anyway, we're talking about abortion, teen pregnancy rates, and abstinence-only education are we not? How about we stick to that.

 

[leibowde84]

And higher rates of alcoholism and depression and lower life expectancies.

You really need to provide your source on this one. Every statistic I am seeing indicates the opposite of what you claim. Americans have lower life-expectancy and less cases of alcoholism.

 

[JoStories]

Oh trust me, I am well aware of how statistical fallacies are used in "studies" by agenda driven research. I see this all the time, from all over the place.
Frankly, I think the single biggest reason for the explosion in children born to irresponsible parents is birth control and access to abortion. It seems counter intuitive. But a large number of irresponsible people now feel entitled to risky sex. Including people who are insufficiently responsible to use the birth control that is easily accessible.
It is not the only reason by a long shot. Media representation of sex as a right and a commodity is another. Lack of parental monitoring is another. The list is pretty long.
Tom

Don't forget the unfettered ability to use media and the internet or smart phones or Ipad's or whatever kids have now. Children in kindergarten are REQUIRED to have a tablet now. What of those parents who cannot afford one and there are LOTS of those now. Technology plays a large role in how kids are subjected to seeing about sex and learning that its A-OK these days.

 

[SomeRandom]

And higher rates of alcoholism and depression and lower life expectancies.

Just because Europeans aren't scared by alcohol doesn't mean they're alcoholics. They drink more on average probably for the same reason they aren't scared of nudity like nuns. They treat alcohol like it's normal. Not this ridiculous overreaction I often see of the Americans. (No offence American posters.)

 

[BilliardsBall]

Sexual activity is healthy behavior, as long as it is done safely. And, kids don't respond well to orders that they don't understand the reasoning behind. It is ALWAYS better to educate kids with all available options and dangers instead of coercing them into abstinence.

We can't lie to kids and say that sex outside of marriage is unhealthy. They will figure out the truth and very soon will loose respect for those in charge. That is exactly what happens with marijuana these days. Kids are told that it's so dangerous. They try it and find out it's not a big deal. And, since it is equated with actually dangerous substances, they think those will be fine too.

We should just be honest with our children. Advice is one thing, but purposely withholding information about safe-sex is tantamount to abuse.

At what age is sexual behavior safe for non-married young people in school? Please be specific. I wasn't ready for the fallout myself at age 18...

 

[leibowde84]

At what age is sexual behavior safe for non-married young people in school? Please be specific. I wasn't ready for the fallout myself at age 18...

I didn't mean in school. I mean that we should be honest with kids. Sexual activity is not unhealthy when done safely. So, I think we should teach those at risk those safety precautions rather than stressing abstinence as the only way to go. Kids will easily figure out that isn't true.