Abortion

[McBell]

You're beating your head against the walls of a pro-abortion echo chamber.
If you bring up real life events the response will begin with "Anecdotes don't prove that...."
If you bring up statistics the response will begin with "Well I remember once when..."

Tom

Making bold empty claims and then "supporting" them with nothing more than "well I blah blah blah".
If he had stated from get go something like "from my experiences" or "based upon my experiences" I would have never asked for a source.
But no, he made it sound as though it was some actually real number that applies to a much larger demographic than "his experience".

On a side note, what got you so butt burned?

 

[JoStories]

Brave. Kudos.

Thank you sir.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thanks but I use an iPad to come here and that option is not available. I appreciate the info however.

iOS has a zoom feature in its accessibility options:

Zoom

To enable Zoom, use three fingers and double-tap the screen.

To increase the level of Zoom, use three fingers to double-tap and hold, then move your fingers up or down on the screen to increase or decrease magnification.

You can also switch to high-contrast or invert colours if you find that helpful:

Use Accessibility features in iOS - Apple Support

 

[Nakosis]

Celebrating abortion...
Abortion 'Celebrations' Scheduled Around the Country by Planned Parenthood | Truth Revolt

 

[JoStories]

iOS has a zoom feature in its accessibility options:



You can also switch to high-contrast or invert colours if you find that helpful:

Use Accessibility features in iOS - Apple Support

Well hey...color me surprised penguin. You're the best. Thank you my friend.

 

[Revoltingest]

News from The Associated Press

ASUNCION, Paraguay (AP) -- One of Paraguay's leading churchmen acknowledged Sunday that the nation has been split over the case of a pregnant 10-year-old girl denied an abortion.

The argument over the girl has drawn unusually strong attention to the issues of child abuse and abortion, which is banned in all cases except when the mother's life is in danger.

 

[BilliardsBall]

So nothing but your personal experiences?

I don't question that both of us have learned many things from personal experience. I question only whether a person's personal experiences are valid.

As a leader in a crisis pregnancy center, I interfaced with clients on both sides of the issue and with other centers, researchers in the field, etc. You need not add extra weight to my abortion experience simply because I was involved in the issues as a vocation and an avocation but you can put my ideas to the practical. The next time a young person says they want to get an abortion, encourage them to talk with their parents (in a safe, neutral location and etc.). They are about 95% likely to have the child to raise or to provide for adoption.

There are pro-abortion persons here. Are there persons here who are advocating that unneeded abortions be performed? Of course not.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't question that both of us have learned many from personal experience. I question only whether a person's personal experiences are valid.

As a leader in a crisis pregnancy center, I interfaced with clients on both sides of the issue and with other centers, researchers in the field, etc. You need not add extra weight to my abortion experience simply because I was involved in the issues as a vocation and an avocation but you can put my ideas to the practical. The next time a young person says they want to get an abortion, encourage them to talk with their parents (in a safe, neutral location and etc.). They are about 95% likely to have the child to raise or to provide for adoption.

There are pro-abortion persons here. Are there persons here who are advocating that unneeded abortions be performed? Of course not.

I question your apparent assumption that an anti-choice "crisis pregnancy centre" is a safe or neutral location.

 

[McBell]

I don't question that both of us have learned many things from personal experience. I question only whether a person's personal experiences are valid.

As a leader in a crisis pregnancy center, I interfaced with clients on both sides of the issue and with other centers, researchers in the field, etc. You need not add extra weight to my abortion experience simply because I was involved in the issues as a vocation and an avocation but you can put my ideas to the practical. The next time a young person says they want to get an abortion, encourage them to talk with their parents (in a safe, neutral location and etc.). They are about 95% likely to have the child to raise or to provide for adoption.

There are pro-abortion persons here. Are there persons here who are advocating that unneeded abortions be performed? Of course not.

Interesting.
Seems you are merely trying to convince people to take your word for it simply because you say we should.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

What kind of women's clinic was this?

Crisis Pregnancy Center I'm sure.

Sure looks like it....

I don't question that both of us have learned many things from personal experience. I question only whether a person's personal experiences are valid.

As a leader in a crisis pregnancy center, I interfaced with clients on both sides of the issue and with other centers, researchers in the field, etc. You need not add extra weight to my abortion experience simply because I was involved in the issues as a vocation and an avocation but you can put my ideas to the practical. The next time a young person says they want to get an abortion, encourage them to talk with their parents (in a safe, neutral location and etc.). They are about 95% likely to have the child to raise or to provide for adoption.

How young were the girls that you talked with? Anyone under 18? Under 13?

Because privacy in medical records is protected by the state, how was privacy protected for the patients by your center?

What kind of follow-up was provided for the patients you admitted? Email or mailing list? Religiously themed pamphlets? Medical examinations? After-care programs? Links to resources for new mothers?

I'd also like to know how "safe and neutral" is defined by the crisis pregnancy center. And if sonograms are performed or other medical examinations are performed if they are licensed to do so as medical professionals.

There are pro-abortion persons here. Are there persons here who are advocating that unneeded abortions be performed? Of course not.

Define "unneeded".

 

[BilliardsBall]

Interesting.
Seems you are merely trying to convince people to take your word for it simply because you say we should.

Rather I gave you the opportunity to test what I've said.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Sure looks like it....



How young were the girls that you talked with? Anyone under 18? Under 13?

Because privacy in medical records is protected by the state, how was privacy protected for the patients by your center?

What kind of follow-up was provided for the patients you admitted? Email or mailing list? Religiously themed pamphlets? Medical examinations? After-care programs? Links to resources for new mothers?

I'd also like to know how "safe and neutral" is defined by the crisis pregnancy center. And if sonograms are performed or other medical examinations are performed if they are licensed to do so as medical professionals.



Define "unneeded".

Privacy and discretion were provided in full compliance with existing law and with the strong moral preferences for same among the center's leaders and board of reference.

By unneeded abortions, I'm citing the fact that when young people - up through college grad students - were able to present their pregnancy to parents/guardians rather than abort to hide their sexual activity, almost invariably the parents said "no abortion is needed or wanted". And, of course, the young people felt relieved.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Privacy and discretion were provided in full compliance with existing law and with the strong moral preferences for same among the center's leaders and board of reference.

That's good your center was in full compliance with the law.

What kind of medical examinations were done? Was the staff licensed to examine patients? What kind of follow-up appointments were offered?

By unneeded abortions, I'm citing the fact that when young people - up through college grad students - were able to present their pregnancy to parents/guardians rather than abort to hide their sexual activity, almost invariably the parents said "no abortion is needed or wanted". And, of course, the young people felt relieved.

How young? You don't have to provide names. If the appointments were necessary to have parents/guardians present, is it safe to assume your center was offering services to minors? Were there any patients under 14 you saw and found the same response?

BTW, college grad students are adults, though, aren't they? Why were parents/guardians necessary? I find this very odd.

 

[leibowde84]

You must be for abstinence for young people, then, as well? That would be a consistent stance with what you just said. There are numerous 12-year-olds having intercourse who are not being raped.

Sure ... I think abstinence before 13 is probably a good idea. After that, adults need to be real with kids and give them the facts about sex ... no "damnation", dishonest scare tactics, etc. though.

 

[Marisa]

To be crystal clear, I do not oppose anyone offering their opinions on abortion. It disturbs me to no end to hear the term "pro abortion" thrown about glibly, but at the same time I do appreciate it. It lets me know right up front that I'm dealing with someone who has no interest in taking anything I might offer from any conversation I engage them with. I personally know of zero pro-choice people who are pro-abortion. That's why we call it choice, and it's why anti-choice people call themselves "pro-life" when often, nothing could be farther from the truth. It's a passive/aggressive attempt to marginalize pro-choice proponents by questioning our morality. Yet it takes more than being morally opposed to abortion to be considered pro-life.

I have no problem with CPC's, so long as they don't engage in the tactics many of them do: specifically lying. Depressingly, I've seen twice in this conversation the tired old thoroughly debunked claim that there is some connection between mental health and abortion. There's not. Yet many CPC's rely on this lie, and the lie that there is a connection between abortion and some cancers as well as various "strong arm" tactics. But what I most strongly disagree with is the the notion that they offer a "neutral" territory in which to discuss "options". CPC's have one goal: to prevent a pregnant woman/child from obtaining an abortion. There's absolutely, unequivocally NOTHING neutral about that. The word "neutral" implies that one takes no position at all, and that's not going on in CPC's.

http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/media/fact-sheets/abortion-cpcs.pdf

 

[BilliardsBall]

That's good your center was in full compliance with the law.

What kind of medical examinations were done? Was the staff licensed to examine patients? What kind of follow-up appointments were offered?



How young? You don't have to provide names. If the appointments were necessary to have parents/guardians present, is it safe to assume your center was offering services to minors? Were there any patients under 14 you saw and found the same response?

BTW, college grad students are adults, though, aren't they? Why were parents/guardians necessary? I find this very odd.

Parents and guardians were not necessary for over-18 college students. They were wanted. Once the child reached out to their parents, the "need" to abort disappeared. Thus, many abortions are unneeded. "I'm going to abort so my folks don't learn I'm pregnant."

 

[BilliardsBall]

Sure ... I think abstinence before 13 is probably a good idea. After that, adults need to be real with kids and give them the facts about sex ... no "damnation", dishonest scare tactics, etc. though.

I would respectfully disagree and say I feel badly for kids who lose their innocence at 14, 15, 16...

 

[leibowde84]

I would respectfully disagree and say I feel badly for kids who lose their innocence at 14, 15, 16...

I "lost my innocence" at 16 and I ended up fine.

 

[BilliardsBall]

To be crystal clear, I do not oppose anyone offering their opinions on abortion. It disturbs me to no end to hear the term "pro abortion" thrown about glibly, but at the same time I do appreciate it. It lets me know right up front that I'm dealing with someone who has no interest in taking anything I might offer from any conversation I engage them with. I personally know of zero pro-choice people who are pro-abortion. That's why we call it choice, and it's why anti-choice people call themselves "pro-life" when often, nothing could be farther from the truth. It's a passive/aggressive attempt to marginalize pro-choice proponents by questioning our morality. Yet it takes more than being morally opposed to abortion to be considered pro-life.

I have no problem with CPC's, so long as they don't engage in the tactics many of them do: specifically lying. Depressingly, I've seen twice in this conversation the tired old thoroughly debunked claim that there is some connection between mental health and abortion. There's not. Yet many CPC's rely on this lie, and the lie that there is a connection between abortion and some cancers as well as various "strong arm" tactics. But what I most strongly disagree with is the the notion that they offer a "neutral" territory in which to discuss "options". CPC's have one goal: to prevent a pregnant woman/child from obtaining an abortion. There's absolutely, unequivocally NOTHING neutral about that. The word "neutral" implies that one takes no position at all, and that's not going on in CPC's.

http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/media/fact-sheets/abortion-cpcs.pdf

I've already addressed "pro choice" to AGREE with you that most people who are pro choice would NEVER have an abortion. At least, call it "pro someone else's choice"!

And please know I'm the exception to your rule. I'm absolutely committed to learning from you and taking what you have to offer in this conversation.

I hear what you're saying about a neutral place. We were anti-abortion advocates, yes. But we offered a neutral place for parents and kids to talk. Now, consider the ramifications. Weren't we taking risks that we've "talked the young person into not aborting but rather, talking to parents first," but that the PARENTS would be for the abortion(s)? No, I'm telling you that was the fastest way to end the abortion process. Get mom and kids talking. "Honey, I love you, and even though this wasn't the right time in your life for this, I will love my grandchild, also."

Now, I'm unsure I feel safe in offering this next bit of "wisdom". I'm sure I will be accused of dishonesty. But I'll tell you one thing I personally witnessed. We had people come to us after visiting with a local Planned Parenthood, couples wanting assistance, and they told us things like, "They put him in one room and me in the other, encouraging us to abort, and each saying the other in the couple was for the abortion, when we all along wanted this child!"

The opposite of Planned "Un-" Parenthood's manipulation? Communication. That's why even though I prefer pro abortion to pro choice as some gentle euphemism, I'm all about the communication...

Thanks for your patience with me.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I "lost my innocence" at 16 and I ended up fine.

To your future spouse?