Abortion

[BilliardsBall]

Why isn't there marriage in heaven then? The marriage you're referring to is mankinds installation and institution.

There isn't child rearing in Heaven either, but we don't help the process along via infanticide or abortion.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I'm not going to sit around waiting for some better place after I'm dead. I'd rather work to make this place we live in a better place while I'm living the only life I know we all get for sure.

Making the world a better place for others and not just yourself, implies supporting the absolute right to life, liberty and happiness. And if someone hadn't stuck it tough for you, you yourself wouldn't be here now to make a better place for you and others. Of course, I would also say Jesus did no such thing for Himself but gave His all for you to have that happiness, now and forever.

 

[Unification]

There isn't child rearing in Heaven either, but we don't help the process along via infanticide or abortion.

With that doctrine,
Unwanted "child" goes into "heaven", not dead and in a much better perceived place than here and wanted in the end ... In an older, different body where the unwanted child will forgive the mother while the mother can still repent, be forgiven anyway and get to "heaven."

 

[leibowde84]

There isn't child rearing in Heaven either, but we don't help the process along via infanticide or abortion.

Is this discussion about the right to abortion for women (legally protected right), or the morality of abortion itself? In other words are you arguing against the right to choice/bodily autonomy needing to be changed, or whether abortion for convenience is morally wrong? Because they are very different positions, requiring very different arguments.

 

[leibowde84]

With that doctrine,
Unwanted "child" goes into "heaven", not dead and in a much better perceived place than here and wanted in the end ... In an older, different body where the unwanted child will forgive the mother while the mother can still repent, be forgiven anyway and get to "heaven."

Also known as "faulty logic".

 

[JoStories]

There was no possible adoption where you were? Was someone saying you were forced to raise the child at age 15?

The child is genetic unique and has its full genetic potential at conception. There is nothing to be added after conception to make it a new species or more or less of a person. I'm sorry you experienced rape and horror. I'm sorry you dealt with this trauma.

Thank you but you would have forced me to carry a daily reminder for 10 months of the rapes I had endured?? Sorry but that is just cruel. And there is no life before the fetus takes a breath. Period. It is a parasitic being that does not qualify under the law as a person until the breath is taken.

 

[McBell]

And there is no life before the fetus takes a breath. Period.

Define "life" as you are using it in the above quoted.

 

[JoStories]

Define "life" as you are using it in the above quoted.

As it pertains to humankind, a being able to breathe. Even if that means a ventilator, the person can independently chemically and physiologically manage O2 and CO2. A fetus cannot do that.

 

[Forever_Catholic]

As it pertains to humankind, a being able to breathe. Even if that means a ventilator, the person can independently chemically and physiologically manage O2 and CO2. A fetus cannot do that.

Breathing air does not define the beginning of a human life. That would be to entirely dismiss brain activity, heartbeat, blood circulating, and cells dividing. And since these things are ongoing in a developing fetus, they are not the beginning either.

 

[Emi]

I personally think only cruel people can be fully against abortion. If people don't agree with abortion, but accept it in certain cases, that's different. But genuinely wanting a child to be born in horrible circumstances (ie, severe defects, family that doesn't accept him, abandonment, abuse, starvation, etc) I can't even begin to wrap my head around, no matter what the excuses are.

 

[Forever_Catholic]

I personally think only cruel people can be fully against abortion. If people don't agree with abortion, but accept it in certain cases, that's different. But genuinely wanting a child to be born in horrible circumstances (ie, severe defects, family that doesn't accept him, abandonment, abuse, starvation, etc) I can't even begin to wrap my head around, no matter what the excuses are.

Then why shouldn't we murder everyone at any age with severe defects, families who don't accept them, or who are abandoned, abused, starving, etc?

 

[leibowde84]

There was no possible adoption where you were? Was someone saying you were forced to raise the child at age 15?

The child is genetic unique and has its full genetic potential at conception. There is nothing to be added after conception to make it a new species or more or less of a person. I'm sorry you experienced rape and horror. I'm sorry you dealt with this trauma.

How can you even imagine what it would be like? Where do you get off giving advice on this? Are you a woman? Have you been raped? Get real ...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

 

[SomeRandom]

Then why shouldn't we murder everyone at any age with severe defects, families who don't accept them, or who are abandoned, abused, starving, etc?

Fetus =|= a fully developed human adult or even post birth babies.

 

[Emi]

Then why shouldn't we murder everyone at any age with severe defects, families who don't accept them, or who are abandoned, abused, starving, etc?

Because generally they murder themselves before we get to.

No, really. Sometimes they escape and become something great. That's not usual though. They usually die suffering and mentally disturbed. I used to be one of those children and I just barely survived against myself.

 

[leibowde84]

Then why shouldn't we murder everyone at any age with severe defects, families who don't accept them, or who are abandoned, abused, starving, etc?

Because, once the subject (fetus, person, human, or whatever you wanna call it) is viable, they have their own bodily autonomy protected by law. But, even if in some weird situation where I was made to be hooked up to another person surgically, depending on them for survival, I would still not be able to force that person (legally) to provide their body to stay alive.

Long story short, no one can force a person to give up the use of their body (directly and physically - pregnancy, slavery, hostage taking, coersion, etc.) against their will.

 

[Forever_Catholic]

Because generally they murder themselves before we get to.

No, really. Sometimes they escape and become something great. That's not usual though. They usually die suffering and mentally disturbed. I used to be one of those children and I just barely survived against myself.

And thank God you did. I know that many babies are born into horrible circumstances, but they're still souls like us. If their lives are terminated in the womb, then they will have had no chance for growth or happiness on earth at all. We at least have that.

 

[leibowde84]

And thank God you did. I know that many babies are born into horrible circumstances, but they're still souls like us. If their lives are terminated in the womb, then they will have had no chance for growth or happiness on earth at all. We at least have that.

Do you think that this potential viable life should get more rights than already developed viable humans? Because, under current law, no person has the right to use another's body for any reason against their will or without contractual consent.

So, your first battle will be trying to convince people that sex is a contract for pregnancy ... just for the woman.

 

[Forever_Catholic]

Long story short, no one can force a person to give up the use of their body (directly and physically - pregnancy, slavery, hostage taking, coersion, etc.) against their will.

Most unwanted pregnancies are due to the irresponsibility of men and women who willingly take a known and unnecessary risk to satisfy themselves. Willing sexual partners are not slaves or hostages, and are not the victims when the murder of an innocent party is the end result of their actions.

But I will admit that sometimes women are victims in another sense, especially young ones who are pressured against their consciences to get abortions at a time when they are stressed out and confused. I know some women who had abortions when they were young, and have been haunted ever since with a remorse that will never go away.

 

[Forever_Catholic]

Do you think that this potential viable life should get more rights than already developed viable humans? Because, under current law, no person has the right to use another's body for any reason against their will or without contractual consent.

So, your first battle will be trying to convince people that sex is a contract for pregnancy ... just for the woman.

God creates every human soul in his own image and and likeness, and all come into this world the very same way. So who is developed and viable at a given time and who isn't says absolutely nothing about which ones have a greater right to live their earthly life.

And sex a contract for pregnancy? Is starting a fire a contract for burning something? The core function of sex is to cause pregnancy, and it works pretty well for that purpose unless people use contraception of some sort. That's just a fact of life. But we might agree on the just-for-the-woman part. A man who gets a woman pregnant has a moral responsibility at least as great as hers, and a man who encourages or helps facilitate an abortion is an accomplice in murder.