Abortion

[9-10ths_Penguin]

They're suggesting a woman should give birth to the child she conceived due to the intercourse she (in most cases) chose to have.

Do you understand how this is a problem?

When we value consent, we acknowledge that:

- consent needs to be freely given
- consent to one thing (e.g. sex) doesn't imply consent to anything else (e.g. pregnancy), and
- consent can be withdrawn

Why do you disagree with valuing consent?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

How depraved does a society have to be that killing its children is considered a right?

How depraved is a religion or any of its adherents to think that their religious dogma should limit the lives on non-volunteers? Nobody outside of your religion cares what you consider a child or a right - just others generated from the same mold as you and so many millions like you. You people need to mind your own business, but we know you won't, so your church needs to be disempowered.

And how do we do that? In art, by underscoring the hypocrisy and anti-American proclivities your religion and those most informed by it - just like this.

But your church is doing the heavy lifting with its repellant face in the news, which is probably driving more people away from Christianity than people like me.

Keep following the Pew surveys to follow the effectiveness of this and "the rise of the Nones" as proxies for the evaporation of that church's hegemony.

Next stop: fix the American Supreme Court by neutering its Christo-fascist contingent. How? We wait for Alito and Thomas to retire or die while Democrats hold the White House. By then, Christian will be under or close to under 50% of the nation, and then they can go behave like all of the other religions in America.

Ignatius and Skeptic Thinker, neither of you are going to convince the other that either of you are right. (Same to you, It Ain't Necessarily So.)

I'm not trying to convince him.

I'm using him and people like him to illustrate what kind of people his religion generates. My purpose is to reach other kinds of people than zealous believers. Some already agree with me but will be motivated to post more assertively about all of this anti-Americanism, hypocrisy, and bigotry, and some less offended by this church than they realize that they should be will be given reasons to think differently.

There was a time when people with opinions like mine were killed by Christians. By my time, people who didn't agree were allowed to live, but not to be teachers, coaches, adoptive parent, or juror. They were largely considered immoral thanks to its wretched atheophobic bigoted doctrine taken right out of its scriptures - pure hate speech directed against unbelievers.

Today, we have a voice and a platform, and we (including me) will use it to challenge the claims of these people. They don't like it, but that's irrelevant.

In the process, we'll treat them better than they treated us:

"Information and time are on the side of nonbelievers. Every single day that the idea of a god persists, more will disbelieve in His existence. There is simply nothing we can do about it but accept the inevitable and hope they do not treat Christians the way Christians have treated them." - anon

 

[Kathryn]

Today, we have a voice and a platform, and we (including me) will use it to challenge the claims of these people. They don't like it, but that's irrelevant.

In the process, we'll treat them better than they treated us:

"Information and time are on the side of nonbelievers. Every single day that the idea of a god persists, more will disbelieve in His existence. There is simply nothing we can do about it but accept the inevitable and hope they do not treat Christians the way Christians have treated them." - anon

I hope so.

 

[crossfire]

Correct so to say, "my body my choice" is nonsensical at best.

Nope. All organ and blood and tissue donation requires consent of the donor.

 

[crossfire]

NEVER surrender to the language of transism. Only women can get pregnant. "People with uteruses" = women

Again, would you call the 10-year-old girl who got raped and became pregnant a woman?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

NEVER surrender to the language of transism.

It's "transism" to acknowledge that women are people?

Only women can get pregnant. "People with uteruses" = women

Women as opposed to people?

Why does it bother you so much to refer to women as people?

(I was going to ask why someone would be so anti-trans that they'd slip into misogyny toward cis women, but then I remembered that anti-trans ideology and misogyny generally come as a package anyway)

 

[We Never Know]

Would you call the 10 year old girl who was raped and got pregnant a "pregnant woman?" She was a pregnant person.

You first referred to her as a girl who was pregnant(which is what she was), but I'm curious to why you felt inclined to then change it to refer to her as a pregnant person?

And no am not ignoring the rape part.

 

[crossfire]

You first referred to her as a girl who was pregnant(which is what she was), but I'm curious to why you felt inclined to then change it to refer to her as a pregnant person?

Well, she's not a woman, and she was pregnant. Pregnant person would include her, whereas pregnant woman would not.

And no am not ignoring the rape part.

You might have missed the edit to my post where I explained why it was important to remember that pregnant people are actual people (with all of the rights that come with being a person,) and not just some sort of incubator/maturation tanks for embryos and fetuses. I referenced the "Axlotl Tanks" of the Bene Theilax of Dune of what could happen when personhood is no longer recognized and exploitation is favored over personal rights.

Do you find the term "pregnant people" sounding ridiculous, as the poster I was addressing does?

I rather like it. I like keep the reminder they are people, and avoid going anywhere near the extreme of the "Axlotl Tanks" of the Bene Theilax of Dune.

Axlotl Tank

An Axlotl tank or Axolotl tank was the "tank" by which the Bene Tleilax reproduced a living human being from the cells of a cadaver, producing type of clone called a ghola. These tanks were also used in the creation of genetically engineered assassins known as Face Dancers. The axlotl tanks were...

dune.fandom.com

 

[McBell]

You first referred to her as a girl who was pregnant(which is what she was), but I'm curious to why you felt inclined to then change it to refer to her as a pregnant person?

I would not refer to a 10 year old as a woman.
Pregnant or not

 

[McBell]

People doing evil should be everyone's business but not for leftists.

How depraved does a society have to be that killing its children is considered a right? One run by leftists i guess.

This appeal to emotion might well work with your choir, but we are not your choir.

Perhaps you need a more up to date song and dance?

 

[We Never Know]

I would not refer to a 10 year old as a woman.
Pregnant or not

I didn't mention 'woman' in my post. So....

 

[We Never Know]

Well, she's not a woman, and she was pregnant. Pregnant person would include her, whereas pregnant woman would not.

You might have missed the edit to my post where I explained why it was important to remember that pregnant people are actual people (with all of the rights that come with being a person,) and not just some sort of incubator/maturation tanks for embryos and fetuses. I referenced the "Axlotl Tanks" of the Bene Theilax of Dune of what could happen when personhood is no longer recognized and exploitation is favored over personal rights.

Lets try again.

The question was...
"You first referred to her as a call the 10 year old girl who was raped and got pregnant (which was she girl), but I'm curious to why you felt inclined to then change it to refer to her as a pregnant person?"

As you notice you said "girl who...was/got pregnant".
She is a girl - a female child or adolescent
So what inclined you to change her from girl to person?

Would you call the 10 year old girl who was raped and got pregnant a "pregnant woman?" She was a pregnant person. Why do you say pregnant people sounds ridiculous? Pregnant people don't give up their personhood (or personal rights) while they are pregnant, although some seem to be hell-bent to take their personal rights away and make pregnancy and childbirth third-world dangerous again.

 

[McBell]

I didn't mention 'woman' in my post. So....

No idea what that has to do with the fact that I will not refer to a ten year old as a women.
Pregnant or not.

What it is exactly you have against the term "pregnant person" is beyond me.

 

[We Never Know]

No idea what that has to do with the fact that I will not refer to a ten year old as a women.
Pregnant or not.

I didn't mention woman in my post.
I never asked you if you would call a girl a woman in my post.
So I have no idea why you felt compelled to respond with "I would not refer to a 10 year old as a woman. Pregnant or not"

What it is exactly you have against the term "pregnant person" is beyond me.

They are pregnant women/girls/females.

Anytime I see anyone pregnant, its obvious they are female.

Not all people/persons can get pregnant.

Why not call them
People with uteruses?
People with eggs(ovum)?
People with fallopian tubes?
People with vaginas?
People with a placenta?

Those are key in a pregnancy and not all persons/people have them.

What exactly you have against the term pregnant women(woman) or pregnant girl(s) is beyond me.

 

[crossfire]

Lets try again.

The question was...
"You first referred to her as a call the 10 year old girl who was raped and got pregnant (which was she girl), but I'm curious to why you felt inclined to then change it to refer to her as a pregnant person?"

As you notice you said "girl who...was/got pregnant".
She is a girl - a female child or adolescent
So what inclined you to change her from girl to person?

You got into this in post #237 when you quoted my post 235 which was in response to Pawpatrol's post #121 (you don't happen to have an alias named Pawpatrol?)

Pregnant women usually don't like to be called pregnant people. It sounds ridiculous

Would you call the 10 year old girl who was raped and got pregnant a "pregnant woman?" She was a pregnant person. Why do you say pregnant people sounds ridiculous? Pregnant people don't give up their personhood (or personal rights) while they are pregnant, although some seem to be hell-bent to take their personal rights away and make pregnancy and childbirth third-world dangerous again.

She was a pregnant girl(young female, adolescent female).

 

[crossfire]

I didn't mention woman in my post.
I never asked you if you would call a girl a woman in my post.
So I have no idea why you felt compelled to respond with "I would not refer to a 10 year old as a woman. Pregnant or not"


They are pregnant women/girls/females.

Anytime I see anyone pregnant, its obvious they are female.

Not all people/persons can get pregnant.

Why not call them
People with uteruses?
People with eggs(ovum)?
People with fallopian tubes?
People with vaginas?
People with a placenta?

Those are key in a pregnancy and not all persons/people have them.

What exactly you have against the term pregnant women(woman) or pregnant girl(s) is beyond me.

I actually prefer the term pregnant person over pregnant woman, pregnant girl, or pregnant transman, simply because it emphasizes the word person, a being with personal rights. I won't throw a hissy fit over people using the word pregnant woman or girl or transman, but I WILL stand up against anyone who says that pregnant person sounds ridiculous, which is what I've been doing here in this thread.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You refered to an unborn child. Everyone refers to the unborn child as a baby.

There is no such thing as an unborn child, just as there is no such thing as a married bachelor. You do not get to make up your own definition s to win an argument.

 

[Subduction Zone]

People doing evil should be everyone's business but not for leftists.

Name calling? And people doing the right thing are "leftists"? Do you really think that helps you? If you want to win an argument you need to argue rationally and supply evidence.

Why do you think that a fetus is a "child"? What is your evidence for that/

How depraved does a society have to be that killing its children is considered a right? One run by leftists i guess.

I know. The Republicans are terrible. They only care about fetuses and embryos. Once they are actually children they do not care about them anymore.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

There is no such thing as an unborn child, just as there is no such thing as a married bachelor. You do not get to make up your own definition s to win an argument.

That goes back to the OP and involves me. That one is not on @Ignatius A

 

[McBell]

I didn't mention woman in my post.
I never asked you if you would call a girl a woman in my post.
So I have no idea why you felt compelled to respond with "I would not refer to a 10 year old as a woman. Pregnant or not"

Simply because a 10 year old is not a women.
Pregnant or not.
So referring to to a pregnant 10 year old as a pregnant woman is just flat out wrong.

They are pregnant women/girls/females.

You left off person/ people.
Though I have no idea why your aversion to calling them people/person...

Anytime I see anyone pregnant, its obvious they are female.

But not a person?

Not all people/persons can get pregnant.

WTF does that have to do with the fact that some people/persons not only can, but do?

Why not call them
People with uteruses?
People with eggs(ovum)?
People with fallopian tubes?
People with vaginas?
People with a placenta?

Those are key in a pregnancy and not all persons/people have them.

The main key in pregnancy is being pregnant.
Does not matter if the female in question is a person, canine, feline, bovine, the pregnant part is the key in pregnancy.

What exactly you have against the term pregnant women(woman) or pregnant girl(s) is beyond me.

I do not refer to ten year olds as women.
Pregnant or not.

I thought I had made that clear, but apparently not.