About a deity full of love and compassion

[atanu]

The development of a body is recorded in its 'seed'. It is as if the 'seed' was a big blueprint + some workers. However, those workers are mindless zombies, or machines, as you prefer to see it.

So we don't know how exactly the 'conscious' part of the blueprint comes to existence.

Yes.

You say with surety that sperm/seeds are Zombie. Accepted. Just as bodies in themselves are.

But you still say we don't know how exactly the 'conscious' part of the blueprint comes to existence.

So, you don't know how you are able to debate yet you know surely that intelligence was created out of zombie material.

 

[atanu]

We do not know who says the "I exist".

That is all. We agree Koldo.

 

[Koldo]

Or Maybe you know nothing about what you are talking about!
Maybe you are that shallow that you think every one tapped into the right God will be a millionaire because they pray to win Lotto and God should oblidge.

The cost of sin is death and we will all die up untill after Armageddon, whether by tsunami or other causes. The reason God does not interceed is because He needs to show the world and Mankind and the angels that Mankind is unable to rule itself. The state of the world shows He is correct.

Earthquakes, are said to not be increasing by geologists. Certainly their catastrophic results are enhanced by an increasing population. However other reports suggest an increase.
Massive Increase in Earthquakes in 2008 | NowPublic Photo Archives

Regardless the toll from earthquakes has increased with population and our knowledge of them has increased for many reasons including more instrumentation and communication, something not available 100 years ago. What we see now is nothing compared to when the Great Tribulation begins.

"For then there will be GREAT distress, unequaled from the worlds beginning until now and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no-one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short" Mathew Ch24.

So in fact God will inteceed at this point, and the world will change for the better. You just need to hope that in that day you stand as one of the elect or have already died and paid for your sins. Until that day God is demonstrating how useless we are without his guardianship and intervention. Satan nor angel nor mankind will ever be able to alledge that mankind is capable of ruling themselves nor that people will only love Him for what we can get out of Him. There will be always be the faithfull believing through faith, without the grant of every prayer that has nothing to do with drawing closer to God!!!!

And yes,, as much as God is loving, he is equally exacting and He and his Son will rule with rods of iron as well as love. God made the world, he gets to make the rules. We do not have to like them. All those alive at that time will get a final choice prior to Armageddon that, will not involve faith, to follow or die. Many will still choose death, is bible prophesy.

If you knew for sure there was a God and you had to change your ways and beliefs to a certain way, whatever that may be, would you, or could you, do it? I am sure I can no matter whether the JW's, Mormon, Jews or a mix or any other. Are you prepared? These are the questions you all should be asking yourselves!

If your answer is NO. Then the dead will be more fortunate than you, if that day arrives in your life time.

Do you believe God is omnibenevolent?

 

[PolyHedral]

We do not know who says the "I exist".

Isn't it obvious? I say "I exist". However, I am fairly confident that "I" actually constitutes brain chemistry.

 

[Koldo]

You say with surety that sperm/seeds are Zombie. Accepted. Just as bodies in themselves are.

But you still say we don't know how exactly the 'conscious' part of the blueprint comes to existence.

So, you don't know how you are able to debate yet you know surely that intelligence was created out of zombie material.

We have been able to observe cells for a long time, and there is no clear evidence, as far as i know, that those zombie workers are not zombie. They react like mindless things. If you want to state otherwise, you have to show such is not the case.

 

[atanu]

We have been able to observe cells for a long time, and there is no clear evidence, as far as i know, that those zombie workers are not zombie. They react like mindless things. If you want to state otherwise, you have to show such is not the case.

Such so-called zombie sperms are however our sources. But surely we do not know how we become such super intelligent beings who know that their seeds are zombies. Let us take rest.

I agree with your statement: We do not know who says the "I exist".

 

[Koldo]

Such so-called zombie sperms are however our sources. But surely we do not know how we become such super intelligent beings who know that their seeds are zombies. Let us take rest.

I agree with your statement: We do not know who says the "I exist".

That is the mistery of consciousness .

The day we find out how it works we will be able to give the ultimate AI to machines....and then we will all become their slaves....:angel2:

 

[atanu]

That is the mistery of consciousness .

The day we find out how it works we will be able to give the ultimate AI to machines....and then we will all become their slaves....:angel2:

I fully agree. And frubals.

 

[ellenjanuary]

Isn't it obvious? I say "I exist". However, I am fairly confident that "I" actually constitutes brain chemistry.

Have you heard that it is possible that the brain is a quantum computer? I have processed simultaneity, considered it to be a function of mental illness; the more science to back my hypothesis... that would be A OK

 

[Noaidi]

With the earthquake and tsunami in Japan in mind, how can anyone believe that s/he exists? What more evidence do we need before we start using a little critical thinking on the whole notion of a lovable God? Or maybe the Japanese people have not prayed enough, or maybe not to the right God?

I'm inclined to think along the same lines. Although an atheist, I'll challenge those who think of the Judeo-Christian god as a 'loving god' and assume, for the moment, that the god is real.

In Genesis 6, god ordained a global flood that wiped out not just humans, but all of life apart from a few on board a boat. If he had a problem with humans, then fair enough, but why the widespread destruction of non-human species?
In the same book, he tested Abraham by allowing him to believe that he had to kill his son in order to test his faith (Gen. 22). What father would willingly put their offspring to death in order to demonstrate their faith? Yet this is what god commanded (although, being nice, he recanted at the last moment).
Job's faith (Job:1) is tested by god via a wager between god and satan. The end result is that Job loses everything (including his 10 children) apart from his faith, but not to worry folks, cos god gives him a replacement 10 kids. Ain't that nice of god? Truly a god to be revered for his bountiful kindness...

 

[ellenjanuary]

Job's faith (Job:1) is tested by god via a wager between god and satan. The end result is that Job loses everything (including his 10 children) apart from his faith, but not to worry folks, cos god gives him a replacement 10 kids. Ain't that nice of god? Truly a god to be revered for his bountiful kindness...

Put the book down, back away... slowly...

Explosive material. You might slip, hurt yourself, understand god... be messed up for life.

 

[Noaidi]

Put the book down, back away... slowly...

Explosive material. You might slip, hurt yourself, understand god... be messed up for life.

Sorry, you'll have to explain.

 

[ellenjanuary]

Sorry, you'll have to explain.

I used to torment the sheep with Job, it was something to do; Christianity is just, empty, lost...

Then some extraneous variables occurred...

Then read some Job... that ain't what it is for. Job is for smacking Creationists upside the head.

 

[Noaidi]

I used to torment the sheep with Job, it was something to do; Christianity is just, empty, lost...

Then some extraneous variables occurred...

Then read some Job... that ain't what it is for. Job is for smacking Creationists upside the head.

OK, so were you with me or against me in my earlier post? I'm not sure about the extraneous variables you mentioned. What were they?

 

[ellenjanuary]

OK, so were you with me or against me in my earlier post? I'm not sure about the extraneous variables you mentioned. What were they?

With you in the sense that we are mankind; not with you in the sense that cherry-picking scripture is the way to spiritual fulfillment. It will just **** you off, seeing how few believers believe in anything but themselves, is my experience.

Here's some speculation, wanna listen to my side of it.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/theological-concepts/112925-authentic-faith.html

 

[Noaidi]

With you in the sense that we are mankind; not with you in the sense that cherry-picking scripture is the way to spiritual fulfillment. It will just **** you off, seeing how few believers believe in anything but themselves, is my experience.

Do you feel I was taking the story out of context? If so, how does the story relate to the wider scope of what god is trying to tell us via the bible? What was the story of Job really about?

 

[Willamena]

You said there had to be a "master programmer" behind the whole scheme, which is why i pointed out to ToE and abiogenesis. The body programs itself.

It just meant that there has to be a "master programmer" if you want to stick with the "computer" analogy. Computers do not program themselves, unless they are programmed to do so (hence, "master programmer").

 

[Penumbra]

Or. You can show awareness emerging from inert material and asserting "I am porcelain" or some such thing.

No, but it emerges from a brain, which is a vast network of neurons and synapses. A material like porcelain isn't organized in such a way to have emergent conscious properties.

 

[Penumbra]

It just meant that there has to be a "master programmer" if you want to stick with the "computer" analogy. Computers do not program themselves, unless they are programmed to do so (hence, "master programmer").

Who programmed the master programmer?

 

[Willamena]

Who programmed the master programmer?

That's why the programming analogy doesn't work.