About fossils -- would you say this is true?

[Apostle John]

Yeah, science can also date the stars. There are old stars and new stars. Their indicators are different. Our sun is a middle-aged star.
Of course, the dates arrived are approximate in each type of test and the probability of variations is known and mentioned.

No, not at all, no one has witnessed the whole life span of a star. It’s total guesswork.

I thought you was a science guy. You don't appear to know anything about the theory of evolution. It isn't a theory of the origin of life.

Yes I do, they’re just unproven theories. Guesswork and assumptions.

 

[Apostle John]

If you get a chance, try looking at the article from bbc about these scientists trying to figure out how it all began ... What existed before the Big Bang?

I’m sorry, I need facts when secular science discusses creation. It’s all guesswork and assumption atm., I suspect forever. Actually, I know they won’t make progress.

 

[exchemist]

I am not a scientist. I'll look into charcoal/wood dating techniques. And their surmisal.

That would be a good idea. The principle of radiocarbon dating is that when a plant dies or the branch of a tree is cut, it stops taking in CO2 from the air, which includes a certain proportion of ¹⁴C, i.e. atmospheric carbon has a certain fixed ratio of ¹⁴C :¹²C, the latter being the normal, stable isotope of carbon. Over time, then, the ¹⁴C, being unstable, decays. So the ¹⁴C :¹²C ratio of a wooden or plant-derived object will decline in a predictable way with time. So you analyse the object to determine the ratio and that tells you how long ago it ceased to be part of a living plant.

Charcoal is made by partial burning of wood, either as a byproduct of a wood fire or by design, in a fire that is covered over to control the combustion so that as much as possible of the wood is turned to charcoal. Early people making charcoal drawings probably used pieces from an open fire, as there would always be some of that to hand.

More generally, since you are not a scientist, it would be prudent for you to check some of these things before you try to dismiss them.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

No, not at all, no one has witnessed the whole life span of a star. It’s total guesswork.

Yes I do, they’re just unproven theories. Guesswork and assumptions.

So you know the theory of evolution isn't about the origin of life, but chose to conflate the two anyway in much the same way that other creationists do? Doing that isn't befitting a scientist or a Christian as I understand either.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You mean life on the earth, don't you? Because from MY beliefs (basically coming from the Bible), life began before life on this earth began. (Look at "In the beginning -- " So that's MY belief in a big way...) And, I might add to the mix, although a bit not according to the topic, but yes, it is in a way pertaining to the topic--the following: "How our Universe was born from nothing or if there was something that existed before it remains a mystery, but that is not stopping some physicists from trying to figure it out." What existed before the Big Bang?
I read the article and I'm thinking it borders on the insane. But I guess the physicists have fun... Article from bbc.com

I thought the discussion was about life on earth. Of course, as an observation, conversations with you do tend to jump around a lot.

Are you saying the Bible claims living things arose on other planets before here? I don't recall that bit in the Bible or being taught it as part of my faith.

 

[Apostle John]

So you know the theory of evolution isn't about the origin of life, but chose to conflate the two anyway in much the same way that other creationists do? Doing that isn't befitting a scientist or a Christian as I understand either.

The theory of evolution by natural selection was conceived independently by Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace in the mid-19th century and was set out in detail in Darwin's book On the Origin of Species.
Darwin could have only speculated the origin of life couldn’t he?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

The theory of evolution by natural selection was conceived independently by Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace in the mid-19th century and was set out in detail in Darwin's book On the Origin of Species.
Darwin could have only speculated the origin of life couldn’t he?

That does not answer my original post to you nor does it address the one that followed. You conflated the origin of life with the theory of evolution and then followed up with a post indicating that you know the difference and did it anyway.

It is almost as if you are struggling to reconcile what you believe with the science you were trained in and going about it all wrong.

I come to this conclusion from seeing you avoid these sorts of direct questions and observations from others. I see it as confounding your claims of deeper spiritual insight.

 

[YoursTrue]

I thought the discussion was about life on earth. Of course, as an observation, conversations with you do tend to jump around a lot.

Are you saying the Bible claims living things arose on other planets before here? I don't recall that bit in the Bible or being taught it as part of my faith.

"In the beginning -- God created the heavens and the earth." So God, who is alive, was there when He created the heavens and the earth. The scriptures also tell us the angels rejoiced when God created these things. Yes, God and the angels were alive before life began on the earth.
Job chapter 38 helps readers to understand.

 

[Apostle John]

That does not answer my original post to you nor does it address the one that followed. You conflated the origin of life with the theory of evolution and then followed up with a post indicating that you know the difference and did it anyway.

It is almost as if you are struggling to reconcile what you believe with the science you were trained in and going about it all wrong.

I come to this conclusion from seeing you avoid these sorts of direct questions and observations from others. I see it as confounding your claims of deeper spiritual insight.

I don’t really pay much attention to theories about creation so don’t partition them like the science you may follow. Science is a word derived from the Latin for knowledge. Theories don’t provide knowledge and knowledge isn’t wisdom which for me comes from spiritual insight. Good luck all of you non-believers in Christ.

 

[YoursTrue]

That would be a good idea. The principle of radiocarbon dating is that when a plant dies or the branch of a tree is cut, it stops taking in CO2 from the air, which includes a certain proportion of ¹⁴C, i.e. atmospheric carbon has a certain fixed ratio of ¹⁴C :¹²C, the latter being the normal, stable isotope of carbon. Over time, then, the ¹⁴C, being unstable, decays. So the ¹⁴C :¹²C ratio of a wooden or plant-derived object will decline in a predictable way with time. So you analyse the object to determine the ratio and that tells you how long ago it ceased to be part of a living plant.

Charcoal is made by partial burning of wood, either as a byproduct of a wood fire or by design, in a fire that is covered over to control the combustion so that as much as possible of the wood is turned to charcoal. Early people making charcoal drawings probably used pieces from an open fire, as there would always be some of that to hand.

More generally, since you are not a scientist, it would be prudent for you to check some of these things before you try to dismiss them.

Well, it's nice to know that I can try to research the how's and why's of things. I am looking into charcoal dating but the articles I have found so far are quite vague when it comes to detailed explanations as to exactly what was examined and how the dates were determined. If I'm wrong about that, you might want to be helpful and link to an article and since you accept the data, perhaps be able to explain the details. Thanks. Now I am finding something about the idea that the carbon dating is intertwined with the death of the object being examined.

 

[Audie]

That does not answer my original post to you nor does it address the one that followed. You conflated the origin of life with the theory of evolution and then followed up with a post indicating that you know the difference and did it anyway.

It is almost as if you are struggling to reconcile what you believe with the science you were trained in and going about it all wrong.

I come to this conclusion from seeing you avoid these sorts of direct questions and observations from others. I see it as confounding your claims of deeper spiritual insight.

And mighty is the struggle against that
epiphany for all creationists! For lo, close
behind is yet more grim and terrible revelation !

That their chosen reading of the Bible is not
infallible, and in truth has nothing to do with reality. Imagine trying to maintain belief that you
really know more than any scientist on earth!
What a strain on the cog dis capacity.

Few have the strength to face whats real, but burrow ever deeper into self deception and willful ignorance; and, not least, that sin which may be
Satan's favourite- Vanity.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

No, not at all, no one has witnessed the whole life span of a star. It’s total guesswork.

Yes I do, they’re just unproven theories. Guesswork and assumptions.

As a scientist, I am surprised to see you mention several times the phrase "unproven theories". You should well know that proof is not a standard of science and all theories remain unproven and falsifiable.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

And mighty is the struggle against that
epiphany for all creationists! For lo, close
behind is yet more grim and terrible revelation !

That their chosen reading of the Bible is not
infallible, and in truth has nothing to do with reality. Imagine trying to maintain belief that you
really know more than any scientist on earth!
What a strain on the cog dis capacity.

Few have the strength to face whats real, but burrow ever deeper into self deception and willful ignorance; and, not least, that sin which may be
Satan's favourite- Vanity.

W.F.

The Dunning/Kruger effect remains the basis of such claims of religion and politics and...for many.

 

[Audie]

"In the beginning -- God created the heavens and the earth." So God, who is alive, was there when He created the heavens and the earth. The scriptures also tell us the angels rejoiced when God created these things. Yes, God and the angels were alive before life began on the earth.
Job chapter 38 helps readers to understand.

Planet. Did you see the word "planets"?

In your polytheistic cosmos, these angels
dwelled on planets before the universe existed?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I don’t really pay much attention to theories about creation so don’t partition them like the science you may follow. Science is a word derived from the Latin for knowledge. Theories don’t provide knowledge and knowledge isn’t wisdom which for me comes from spiritual insight. Good luck all of you non-believers in Christ.

That is a rather flaccid dismissal of the facts.

I don't require luck and but I do require honesty.

 

[Audie]

As a scientist, I am surprised to see you mention several times the phrase "unproven theories". You should well know that proof is not a standard of science and all theories remain unproven and falsifiable.

I'm surprised by people who claim to be scientists, then talk as convincingly as I would
about NASCAR, or in a post-game show about
American football. Innings, goalies?
Center field? Free throws?


I've a secret weapon to defend against making such a fool of myself.

I don't try to fake anything.

 

[Astrophile]

I was giving you something easy to think about first. Our solar system is not a centrifuge. How therefore did our sun form first.

The Sun formed first because the mass of the collapsing proto-solar cloud was concentrated at its centre.

How did the earth end up in the Goldilocks zone (it’s orbit so that life can exist).

How did Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus, Mars, Venus and Mercury end up outside the Goldilocks zone?

 

[Apostle John]

That is a rather flaccid dismissal of the facts.

I don't require luck and but I do require honesty.

Genuineness is hard to find on forums, all forums. I am honest and only post under one username each of the forums I’ve ever been on.

 

[Audie]

That is a rather flaccid dismissal of the facts.

I don't require luck and but I do require honesty.

Honest people know that the
beginning of wisdom is knowing
what you don't know.

 

[Apostle John]

The Sun formed first because the mass of the collapsing proto-solar cloud was concentrated at its centre.

That’s sheer guesswork dressed up as fact.

How did Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus, Mars, Venus and Mercury end up outside the Goldilocks zone?

God made the planets and orbits. Prof. Brian Cox said no human knows how the earth ended up in the Goldilocks zone in his recent tv series “The Planets”. He said it’s a mystery.