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Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So obviously you cannot quote any scientist or anyone else who has provided any alternative explanation for the abundance of iron-rich microspheres found in the WTC dust than the fact that temperatures in the buildings were far hotter than those produced by ordinary hydrocarbon fires.

And obviously you haven't identified any error in the methodology or conclusions of the Harrit et al. paper, in which the authors "conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips . . . is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material.”

And you still haven't noted any "mundane occurrences" that account for the numerous observed characteristics of controlled demolition of the buildings quoted in #145.

And you haven't been able to provide a single example of a "mundane occurrence" of a stable structure in which the smaller upper portion can fall upon and crush the larger and stronger lower portion, then crush itself, and do so without the upper portion decelerating upon impacting the lower portion.

And you still haven't been able to provide a single example of a stable structure such as the 3 WTC buildings in which random and asymmetrical structural damage causes symmetrical collapse.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
So obviously you cannot quote any scientist or anyone else who has provided any alternative explanation for the abundance of iron-rich microspheres found in the WTC dust than the fact that temperatures in the buildings were far hotter than those produced by ordinary hydrocarbon fires.

And obviously you haven't identified any error in the methodology or conclusions of the Harrit et al. paper, in which the authors "conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips . . . is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material.”

And you still haven't noted any "mundane occurrences" that account for the numerous observed characteristics of controlled demolition of the buildings quoted in #145.

And you haven't been able to provide a single example of a "mundane occurrence" of a stable structure in which the smaller upper portion can fall upon and crush the larger and stronger lower portion, then crush itself, and do so without the upper portion decelerating upon impacting the lower portion.

And you still haven't been able to provide a single example of a stable structure such as the 3 WTC buildings in which random and asymmetrical structural damage causes symmetrical collapse.

Maybe you should read through the site.

Cheers.
 

Wirey

Fartist
I see the light! The Russians, with their advanced technology and access to all the resources of a strong military and police force are unable to unearth this truth, which would allow them to shame the US into lifting sanctions. The Chinese, who could force trade deals that are incredibly favourable to them with the US if they could prove this horrible crime also are unable to uncover it. The Iranians, the Iraqis, the Indians, all not up to the task. But some guy with a Dell living in his Mom's basement is on the case!

Next.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Maybe you should read through the site.
Done did. That anonymous website does an excellent job of knocking down straw men, asserting utter falsehoods and otherwise not addressing the evidence. For instance, the unknown author claims the molten metal dripping from the South Tower just before it collapsed was aluminum. But molten aluminum at 650°C has no yellow-white hue whatsoever, but is silvery-gray (as numerous videos online show), and aluminum would not remain liquid as it fell:

Who can deny that liquid, molten metal existed at the WTC disaster? The yellow color implies a molten-metal temperature of approximately 1000°C, evidently above that which the dark-smoke hydrocarbon fires in the Towers could produce. If aluminum (e.g., from the plane) had melted, it would melt and flow away from the heat source at its melting point of about 650°C and thus would not reach the yellow color observed for this molten metal. Thus, molten aluminum is already ruled out with high probability. But molten iron with the characteristics seen in this video is in fact consistent with a thermite-reaction attacking the steel columns in the Tower, thus weakening the building just prior to its collapse, since thermite produces molten iron at yellow-to-white hot temperatures. (As some of the molten metal hits the side of the building in the video clip above, the white-hot interior is evidently exposed as the metal "splashes".) Also, the fact that the liquid metal retains an orange hue as it nears the ground (right photograph) further rules out aluminum, and suggests a mid-flight thermite reaction (typical of thermite).

[. . .]

The absence of dark smoke trailing behind the falling liquid material indicated it was not fuel-soaked debris. Indeed, white ash is seen in these videos trailing away from the falling liquid material. Falling molten steel would not produce such a white ash, whereas thermites produce a white aluminum-oxide ash which indeed trails away from the falling molten metal generated in the reaction, corresponding to the observations.​

http://www.journalof911studies.com/...rldTradeCenterBuildingsCompletelyCollapse.pdf

Professor Jones goes on to show that violent reactions do not occur by pouring molten aluminum on rusty steel, as hypothesized, but not tested, by NIST in an attempt to explain the obviously high-temperature "bright spot" in that corner of the South Tower just before the liquid metal began dripping from the building. And he shows that organic material does not mix with molten aluminum to create the yellow-white color of the dripping molten metal, as Greening proposed but did not test.

Your anonymous website knocks down straw men by claiming the Twin Towers did not collapse at exactly free-fall speed (only slightly slower, as NIST admits), and doesn't even mention WTC 7, which NIST eventually admitted fell at free-fall velocity for more than 100 feet, indicating the redundantly strong support columns provided zero resistance.

Other than this, your website:

Provides no alternative explanation for the abundance of iron-rich microspheres found in the WTC dust, which can only indicate that temperatures in the buildings were far hotter than those produced by ordinary hydrocarbon fires.

Provides no explanation for the molten steel the filled the basements of the 3 buildings for weeks afterward.

Does not account for well documented huge chunks of solidified molten iron photographed afterward.

Identifies no error in the methodology or conclusions of the Harrit et al. paper, and does not otherwise account for these red/gray chips.

Does not provide a single example of a stable structure in which the smaller upper portion can fall upon and crush the larger and stronger lower portion, then crush itself, and do so without the upper portion decelerating upon impacting the lower portion.

Does not provide a single example of a stable structure such as the 3 WTC buildings in which random and asymmetrical structural damage causes symmetrical collapse.


I realize that the Bush administration story of the events of 9/11 is your religion. That's why I asked in the OP: what is admirable about holding a belief despite the unequivocal evidence to the contrary?
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I see the light! The Russians, with their advanced technology and access to all the resources of a strong military and police force are unable to unearth this truth, which would allow them to shame the US into lifting sanctions. The Chinese, who could force trade deals that are incredibly favourable to them with the US if they could prove this horrible crime also are unable to uncover it. The Iranians, the Iraqis, the Indians, all not up to the task. But some guy with a Dell living in his Mom's basement is on the case!

Next.
I assume it's a sort of anxiety that causes someone to continue posting on a thread when s/he cannot answer in an intelligent the topic questions that challenge one's religion.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Provides no alternative explanation for the abundance of iron-rich microspheres found in the WTC dust, which can only indicate that temperatures in the buildings were far hotter than those produced by ordinary hydrocarbon fires.

No, it clearly does, as I have quoted it. This is the only point of your here to which I am responding because it is the only point that I have now read anything on. Iron-rich microsospheres are accounted by several explanations. Your inability to see that certainly makes your other points weaker, because all of these topics are discussed on the 9-11 debunked website I quoted, and I would assume that if you are going to flat out ignore the explanations for the microspheres you are probably doing the same with the rest.

I find it funny that you think the Bush story is my religion. I figure truth will come out either way, and have spent very little time concerning myself with the matter. You, however, seem obsessed and willing to ignore clear mundane explanations in search of some great conspiracy. Perhaps we should define religion, lol.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Iron-rich microsospheres are accounted by several explanations.
Then why can't you just tell us what these "several explanations" are for the existence of billions of iron-rich microspheres in the WTC dust? They're not fly ash.

You, however, seem obsessed and willing to ignore clear mundane explanations in search of some great conspiracy.
(1) Again, I haven't said anything about "a great conspiracy". As already noted, if you reject all conspiracy theories for the events of 9/11, then you reject the official story.

(2) Once again, quoting #161:

So obviously you cannot quote any scientist or anyone else who has provided any alternative explanation for the abundance of iron-rich microspheres found in the WTC dust than the fact that temperatures in the buildings were far hotter than those produced by ordinary hydrocarbon fires.

And obviously you haven't identified any error in the methodology or conclusions of the Harrit et al. paper, in which the authors "conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips . . . is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material.”

And you still haven't noted any "mundane occurrences" that account for the numerous observed characteristics of controlled demolition of the buildings quoted in #145.

And you haven't been able to provide a single example of a "mundane occurrence" of a stable structure in which the smaller upper portion can fall upon and crush the larger and stronger lower portion, then crush itself, and do so without the upper portion decelerating upon impacting the lower portion.

And you still haven't been able to provide a single example of a stable structure such as the 3 WTC buildings in which random and asymmetrical structural damage causes symmetrical collapse.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Honestly I think this website is supposed to be satire of “debunking 911”--a sort of “Look, kids, we really can pull rabbits out of hats!”

This is the photo on the front page:

wtc-southtower.jpg


Many, many people have pointed out the anomaly of the top portion of the South Tower here. It’s obviously detached from and about to topple off the lower portion of the building (which for some reason is exploding). If the top portion had remained intact, its momentum would have sent it to the street below. But the top portion didn’t remain intact, as it would have had to have done if it was to somehow magically crush the whole stronger lower portion of the building. Instead, that upper portion exploded and disintegrated in midair:

 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Then why can't you just tell us what these "several explanations" are for the existence of billions of iron-rich microspheres in the WTC dust? They're not fly ash.
We have. You just are ignoring them or refusing to acknowledge them.
wtc-southtower.jpg


Many, many people have pointed out the anomaly of the top portion of the South Tower here. It’s obviously detached from and about to topple off the lower portion of the building (which for some reason is exploding).
What explosion? I see some smoke, lots of dust, but no boom.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Then why can't you just tell us what these "several explanations" are for the existence of billions of iron-rich microspheres in the WTC dust? They're not fly ash.

(1) Again, I haven't said anything about "a great conspiracy". As already noted, if you reject all conspiracy theories for the events of 9/11, then you reject the official story.

(2) Once again, quoting #161:

So obviously you cannot quote any scientist or anyone else who has provided any alternative explanation for the abundance of iron-rich microspheres found in the WTC dust than the fact that temperatures in the buildings were far hotter than those produced by ordinary hydrocarbon fires.

And obviously you haven't identified any error in the methodology or conclusions of the Harrit et al. paper, in which the authors "conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips . . . is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material.”

And you still haven't noted any "mundane occurrences" that account for the numerous observed characteristics of controlled demolition of the buildings quoted in #145.

And you haven't been able to provide a single example of a "mundane occurrence" of a stable structure in which the smaller upper portion can fall upon and crush the larger and stronger lower portion, then crush itself, and do so without the upper portion decelerating upon impacting the lower portion.

And you still haven't been able to provide a single example of a stable structure such as the 3 WTC buildings in which random and asymmetrical structural damage causes symmetrical collapse.

I have.
 

Wirey

Fartist
I assume it's a sort of anxiety that causes someone to continue posting on a thread when s/he cannot answer in an intelligent the topic questions that challenge one's religion.

Yeah, that's it. I'm not the kind to throw beer cans at the cabin boy.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Then why can't you just tell us what these "several explanations" are for the existence of billions of iron-rich microspheres in the WTC dust? They're not fly ash.
Yes, you said the iron-rich microspheres sprinkled down from Mars.

If anything you've posted on this thread were intelligent, had some basis in reality, and accounted for the evidence cited, you wouldn't be ashamed to repeat it.

So. again, you obviously haven't been able to provide any other explanation for the abundance of iron-rich microspheres found in the WTC dust than the fact that temperatures in the buildings were far hotter than those produced by ordinary hydrocarbon fires. Nor have you accounted for the other evidence of molten iron.

And obviously you haven't identified any error in the methodology or conclusions of the Harrit et al. paper, in which the authors "conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips . . . is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material.”

And you haven't accounted for the numerous observed characteristics of controlled demolition of the buildings quoted in #145.

And you haven't been able to provide a single example of a stable structure in which the smaller upper portion can fall upon and crush the larger and stronger lower portion, then crush itself, and do so without the upper portion decelerating upon impacting the lower portion.

And you still haven't been able to provide a single example of a stable structure such as the 3 WTC buildings in which random and asymmetrical structural damage causes symmetrical collapse.

What explosion? I see some smoke, lots of dust, but no boom.
You see no boom? Do you see the upper portion of the building falling over to the side? That's the part that supposedly suddenly slams onto the lower portion due to all of the support structure on a single floor suddenly and magically disappearing (which would result in a dramatic deceleration, which is never observed) and which supposedly crushes the whole lower portion (in violation of Newton's Third Law). Instead of slamming onto the lower portion, the upper portion begins toppling over to the side and soon just disintegrates in midair.
 
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Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Then why can't you just tell us what these "several explanations" are for the existence of billions of iron-rich microspheres in the WTC dust? They're not fly ash.
And if you were not ashamed of the goofy stuff you've posted here, you would be happy to repeat it so that others could know what your explanation is.

So. again, you obviously haven't been able to provide any other explanation for the abundance of iron-rich microspheres found in the WTC dust than the fact that temperatures in the buildings were far hotter than those produced by ordinary hydrocarbon fires. Nor have you accounted for the other evidence of molten iron.

And obviously you haven't identified any error in the methodology or conclusions of the Harrit et al. paper, in which the authors "conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips . . . is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material.”

And you haven't accounted for the numerous observed characteristics of controlled demolition of the buildings quoted in #145.

And you haven't been able to provide a single example of a stable structure in which the smaller upper portion can fall upon and crush the larger and stronger lower portion, then crush itself, and do so without the upper portion decelerating upon impacting the lower portion.

And you still haven't been able to provide a single example of a stable structure such as the 3 WTC buildings in which random and asymmetrical structural damage causes symmetrical collapse.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Yeah, that's it. I'm not the kind to throw beer cans at the cabin boy.
But you are the kind to hold irrational beliefs about the destruction of the WTC buildings despite the unequivocal evidence contradicting them.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
If anything you've posted on this thread were intelligent, had some basis in reality, and accounted for the evidence cited, you wouldn't be ashamed to repeat it.
We did. And you again either ignored them or refused to acknowledge them.
You see no boom? Do you see the upper portion of the building falling over to the side?
No, I don't see any signs of an explosion. And, yes I see the upper portion falling over to the side. I pointed it out earlier as evidence disproving your idea of a "symmetrical collapse" and "controlled demolition," because we do not see such a thing in either case.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
And if you were not ashamed of the goofy stuff you've posted here, you would be happy to repeat it so that others could know what your explanation is.

So. again, you obviously haven't been able to provide any other explanation for the abundance of iron-rich microspheres found in the WTC dust than the fact that temperatures in the buildings were far hotter than those produced by ordinary hydrocarbon fires. Nor have you accounted for the other evidence of molten iron.

And obviously you haven't identified any error in the methodology or conclusions of the Harrit et al. paper, in which the authors "conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips . . . is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material.”

And you haven't accounted for the numerous observed characteristics of controlled demolition of the buildings quoted in #145.

And you haven't been able to provide a single example of a stable structure in which the smaller upper portion can fall upon and crush the larger and stronger lower portion, then crush itself, and do so without the upper portion decelerating upon impacting the lower portion.

And you still haven't been able to provide a single example of a stable structure such as the 3 WTC buildings in which random and asymmetrical structural damage causes symmetrical collapse.

Here you go:

I quoted this:

"Iron Spherules: Another curious phenomenon thought to be linked to the structural steel is creation of tiny spheres of steel or iron, found in the dust after collapse. Several researchers report this, including Lowers and Meeker who documented a few examples of particles found to be nearly pure iron and quite spherical, approximately 7 microns in diameter; and the RJ Lee Group, who identified small, round iron particles as evidence of high temperatures. The significance of these spheres is still debated, along the following lines:

 As discussed previously, there is no evidence at all for large amounts of melted steel. If the spheres are formed by melting steel, it must be surface melting or some other highly localized process.

 It is also not known when the iron spheres were produced. The RJ Lee Group report considers samples taken several months after the collapses, and it is certain that torch-cutting of steel beams as part of the cleanup process contributed some, if not all, of the spherules seen in these samples.

 There appear to be several plausible candidate sources of the iron spherules in office materials or other building contents. Perhaps the most obvious is the flyash itself used in structural concrete, a residue of combusted coal, which contains iron spheres in a variety of sizes that would have been liberated as the concrete was destroyed. Another example is magnetic printer toner, used to print financial instruments, that could have been present in printer cartridges or found in a large volume of paper documents. This candidate has the advantage of matching the size, shape, uniformity, and elemental composition of the observed spherules from one report. We also cannot discount their origin in building contents, rather than building structure, without much more careful study.

 The quantity of these spherules is unknown, but thought to be very small – the iron-rich content of all dust samples was between 0.1 and 1.3%, most of which was not in the form of spherules. A large quantity would suggest melting of steel on large scales, but a small quantity suggests otherwise.

 Small quantities of structural steel or other iron-rich objects could be partially melted through sheer friction, originating in the aircraft impact or the collapses.

 Much like the sulfidized samples, it is impossible to tell whether these spherules were created prior to collapse, after collapse, or both. After collapse, it is plausible for the debris to have reached much higher temperatures.

 As mentioned above, there is potential site contamination from salvage operations, in which numerous steel pieces were cut, involving nontrivial amounts of melted steel. It is also possible for the spherules to have been left over from the buildings’ original construction.

 Iron that appears to have melted may have merely oxidized, and surface chemistry effects of merely heated iron may give rise to tiny amounts of melting even at moderate temperatures.

 Chemical factors, combined with heat, could lead to eutectic mixtures of iron with other elements (such as sulfur) melting and dissociating at relatively low temperatures, potentially creating the iron spherules.

For purposes of this discussion, we will focus on the latter two inferences, and speculate that the spherules may be a result of a chemical process, catalyzed by moderate heat but below the actual melting temperature of steel. It is, therefore, possible (but unproven) that the spherules and the sulfidized steel are related.To further understand sulfidization, we should begin by attempting to understand the source of the sulfur. Sulfur is an abundant element, with numerous possible sources. The following is a brief list of some possible origins of sulfur:

 Diesel fuel, found in emergency generators and in vehicles in the WTC parking garages, contained a fairly high concentration of organosulfuric compounds, providing a possible source of sulfur in an energetically favorable form. WTC 7, where all but one of the sulfidized samples came from, had exceptionally large stores of diesel fuel to power emergency command and control equipment.

 Large banks of batteries existed in a few locations, as backup for computers involved in the financial services, and could plausibly have provided a significant quantity of sulfuric acid.

 Acid rain could have potentially exposed some surfaces to low concentrations of sulfuric acid over many years.

 Ocean water, bearing sulfate salts, was pumped onto the burning debris piles as part of the firefighting effort.

 Gypsum wallboard, omnipresent in large buildings, is almost entirely composed of sulfur-bearing minerals. However, this sulfur is not in an energetically favorable form, and some other chemical process would be required to react with steel structural members.

The Worcester Polytechnic Institute is continuing to experiment with sulfur compounds in an effort to recreate the reactions seen in the recovered steel. Given the complexity of the debris fires and the many chemicals present, it appears plausible that sulfidization could have occurred after collapse. Whether or not this could occur prior to collapse remains an open question, and if true, could be a factor in future building fires.

A related possibility, voiced by Dr. Greening, is that of burning plastics or other chemicals giving rise to other caustic compounds, such as creation of hydrogen chloride (which in contact with water forms hydrochloric acid) from burning PVC (polyvinyl chloride). This is relevant because large quantities of PVC, along with other plastics, are found in modern offices. Chemicals such as this could potentially catalyze sulfur reactions, and also lead to a chemical weakening of steel structural elements, an additional hazard. A historical example of this is the Plastimet Fire in Hamilton, Ontario, in July of 1997. In this fire, roughly 200 tons of PVC and other plastics burned over a period of a few days. Among the fire’s effects were reports of localized metal corrosion, linked to the creation of HCl gas which was measured at 53 to 930 micrograms per cubic meter.

The volume of PVC burned in this fire was comparable to the amount of plastics in the WTC fire floors, and it is also conceivable that caustic chemicals would be trapped within the structure, raising their concentrations to this level or possibly much higher.

However, the use of PVC in construction is not new, and there have been numerous studies on its effects in fires. Industry sources question its ability to weaken a structure through chemical means:


Burning PVC has resulted in corrosion damage to electrical equipment in the vicinity. This has led to suggestions that PVC should not be used in construction applications. Against this should be set other factors. PVC components can be formulated to combine a good technical performance and high resistance to ignition and flame-spread. Formulations can also be designed to reduce the quantity of hydrogen chloride emitted. There have been suggestions that hydrogen chloride from burning PVC may damage steel reinforcement in concrete, or significantly weaken unprotected steel structures. The UK Fire Research Station has shown that reinforcement is not normally affected. It has also been confirmed that unprotected steel structures are distorted and weakened by heat rather than by hydrogen chloride.

For applications with very high fire risks, for example oil rigs and nuclear installations, more expensive, high performance insulating materials are preferred to PVC. The cost of post-fire clean-up operations must be included in assessing the total cost of fire damage. Just as soot can be removed from affected equipment, so chloride corroded parts can be reconditioned. This is well recognized by fire salvage consultants and by insurance companies."
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
If anything you've posted on this thread were intelligent, had some basis in reality, and accounted for the evidence cited, you wouldn't be ashamed to repeat it.
We did.
I'll repeat: If anything you've posted on this thread were intelligent, had some basis in reality, and accounted for the evidence cited, you wouldn't be ashamed to repeat it.

So. again, you obviously haven't been able to provide any other explanation for the abundance of iron-rich microspheres found in the WTC dust than the fact that temperatures in the buildings were far hotter than those produced by ordinary hydrocarbon fires. Nor have you accounted for the other evidence of molten iron.

And obviously you haven't identified any error in the methodology or conclusions of the Harrit et al. paper, in which the authors "conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips . . . is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material.”

And you haven't accounted for the numerous observed characteristics of controlled demolition of the buildings quoted in #145.

And you haven't been able to provide a single example of a stable structure in which the smaller upper portion can fall upon and crush the larger and stronger lower portion, then crush itself, and do so without the upper portion decelerating upon impacting the lower portion.

And you still haven't been able to provide a single example of a stable structure such as the 3 WTC buildings in which random and asymmetrical structural damage causes symmetrical collapse.

And, yes I see the upper portion falling over to the side. I pointed it out earlier as evidence disproving your idea of a "symmetrical collapse" and "controlled demolition," because we do not see such a thing in either case.
False. The debris field showed that all three buildings fell symmetrically, despite their asymmetrical damage and the impossibility of the upper portion of the 2 Towers falling symmetrically upon the lower portion so as to supposedly crush the lower portion.

The upper portion of the South Tower was detached and tilting away from the upper portion, and if it had continued falling from its own momentum, it would have toppled into the street below. Instead it disintegrated in midair.

Obviously you haven't been able to show that any building would behave in such a way, in defiance of the law of conservation of momentum and Newton's third law.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Here you go:

I quoted this:

"Iron Spherules: Another curious phenomenon thought to be linked to the structural steel is creation of tiny spheres of steel or iron, found in the dust after collapse. Several researchers report this, including Lowers and Meeker who documented a few examples of particles found to be nearly pure iron and quite spherical, approximately 7 microns in diameter; and the RJ Lee Group, who identified small, round iron particles as evidence of high temperatures. The significance of these spheres is still debated, along the following lines:

 As discussed previously, there is no evidence at all for large amounts of melted steel.
As already noted, RJ Lee calculated that the iron-rich microspheres constituted about 5.8% of the samples by weight.

If the spheres are formed by melting steel, it must be surface melting or some other highly localized process.

 It is also not known when the iron spheres were produced. The RJ Lee Group report considers samples taken several months after the collapses, and it is certain that torch-cutting of steel beams as part of the cleanup process contributed some, if not all, of the spherules seen in these samples.
We've already been over this. From #91:

Provenance of dust samples analyzed in original work reported here.

Sample 1 was collected from inside the Potter Building located at 38 Park Row in New York City. It was collected by a Ph.D. scientist on 9/14/2001, just three days after the 9/11/2001 and before any major steelcutting operations had begun at ground zero. Rescue operations were on-going at the time of sample collection. Furthermore, the building is located about four blocks from ground zero and the sample was collected from dust that had worked its way inside the building, landing on an interior window sill. Thus, contamination from steelcutting operations at ground zero (which can produce molten steel spheres) can be ruled out with a very high degree of confidence. The iron-rich spheres collected in sample 1 are evidence of high-temperature melting and violent fragmentation during the WTC destruction and dust formation.

Sample 2 was collected by Jeannette MacKinlay about a week after 9/11/2001, from inside her apartment at 113 Cedar St./110 Liberty St., New York City. WTC dust entered her apartment through two windows which broke as the South Tower collapsed. The holes in the windows were approximately 0.5 m X 0.8 m, and the apartment was on the fourth floor.

In both samples, elements besides iron are often present in the spheres which yield chemical signatures distinct from that of structural steel (such as Al, Si, Cu, K, S; see Figs. 3 and 4). These chemical signatures provide additional evidence that the spheres did not result from steel-cutting operations during clean-up. We have recently obtained a WTC dust sample acquired within twenty minutes of the collapse of the North Tower, near the Brooklyn Bridge, which also shows spherules like those shown in Figs. 1-5. These spheres cannot have originated from the later clean-up operations.​

http://journalof911studies.com/articles/WTCHighTemp.pdf

 There appear to be several plausible candidate sources of the iron spherules in office materials or other building contents. Perhaps the most obvious is the flyash itself used in structural concrete
We've already been over this. The iron-rich spheres are of a distinctly different elemental composition than fly ash. RJ Lee and USGS reported finding both fly ash and the iron-rich spheres.

 Small quantities of structural steel or other iron-rich objects could be partially melted through sheer friction, originating in the aircraft impact or the collapses.
Prove it.

After collapse, it is plausible for the debris to have reached much higher temperatures.
What caused these "much higher temperatures" after the buildings collapsed?

 Iron that appears to have melted may have merely oxidized
The presence of molten iron at the time of collapse is well established.

 Chemical factors, combined with heat, could lead to eutectic mixtures of iron with other elements (such as sulfur)
Now all you need to do is explain the cause of these high temperatures needed to vaporize the steel flange and the source of the sulfure.

For purposes of this discussion, we will focus on the latter two inferences, and speculate that the spherules may be a result of a chemical process, catalyzed by moderate heat but below the actual melting temperature of steel. It is, therefore, possible (but unproven) that the spherules and the sulfidized steel are related.To further understand sulfidization, we should begin by attempting to understand the source of the sulfur. Sulfur is an abundant element, with numerous possible sources. The following is a brief list of some possible origins of sulfur:

 Diesel fuel, found in emergency generators and in vehicles in the WTC parking garages, contained a fairly high concentration of organosulfuric compounds, providing a possible source of sulfur in an energetically favorable form. WTC 7, where all but one of the sulfidized samples came from, had exceptionally large stores of diesel fuel to power emergency command and control equipment.
Diesel ignites at 399°C, not nearly hot enough to melt steel: http://www.tcforensic.com.au/docs/article10.html

 Acid rain could have potentially exposed some surfaces to low concentrations of sulfuric acid over many years.

 Ocean water, bearing sulfate salts, was pumped onto the burning debris piles as part of the firefighting effort.
Not in the Jones et al. samples.

 Gypsum wallboard, omnipresent in large buildings, is almost entirely composed of sulfur-bearing minerals. However, this sulfur is not in an energetically favorable form, and some other chemical process would be required to react with steel structural members.
That's correct, as the experiments show.

The Worcester Polytechnic Institute is continuing to experiment with sulfur compounds in an effort to recreate the reactions seen in the recovered steel. Given the complexity of the debris fires and the many chemicals present, it appears plausible that sulfidization could have occurred after collapse.
So obviously WPI has not figured out the liquid eutectic of the steel flange, and no one has accounted for the high temperatures in WTC 7 required to produce this effect.

A related possibility, voiced by Dr. Greening, is that of burning plastics or other chemicals giving rise to other caustic compounds, such as creation of hydrogen chloride (which in contact with water forms hydrochloric acid) from burning PVC (polyvinyl chloride). This is relevant because large quantities of PVC, along with other plastics, are found in modern offices. Chemicals such as this could potentially catalyze sulfur reactions, and also lead to a chemical weakening of steel structural elements, an additional hazard. A historical example of this is the Plastimet Fire in Hamilton, Ontario, in July of 1997. In this fire, roughly 200 tons of PVC and other plastics burned over a period of a few days. Among the fire’s effects were reports of localized metal corrosion, linked to the creation of HCl gas which was measured at 53 to 930 micrograms per cubic meter.

The volume of PVC burned in this fire was comparable to the amount of plastics in the WTC fire floors, and it is also conceivable that caustic chemicals would be trapped within the structure, raising their concentrations to this level or possibly much higher.

However, the use of PVC in construction is not new, and there have been numerous studies on its effects in fires. Industry sources question its ability to weaken a structure through chemical means:


Burning PVC has resulted in corrosion damage to electrical equipment in the vicinity. This has led to suggestions that PVC should not be used in construction applications. Against this should be set other factors. PVC components can be formulated to combine a good technical performance and high resistance to ignition and flame-spread. Formulations can also be designed to reduce the quantity of hydrogen chloride emitted. There have been suggestions that hydrogen chloride from burning PVC may damage steel reinforcement in concrete, or significantly weaken unprotected steel structures. The UK Fire Research Station has shown that reinforcement is not normally affected. It has also been confirmed that unprotected steel structures are distorted and weakened by heat rather than by hydrogen chloride.

For applications with very high fire risks, for example oil rigs and nuclear installations, more expensive, high performance insulating materials are preferred to PVC. The cost of post-fire clean-up operations must be included in assessing the total cost of fire damage. Just as soot can be removed from affected equipment, so chloride corroded parts can be reconditioned. This is well recognized by fire salvage consultants and by insurance companies."
So plenty of speculations, and no scientific experiments to suggest their plausibility.

And you remain unable to identify any error in the methodology or conclusions of the Harrit et al. paper, in which the authors "conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips . . . is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material.”

And you haven't accounted for the numerous observed characteristics of controlled demolition of the buildings quoted in #145.

And you haven't been able to provide a single example of a stable structure in which the smaller upper portion can fall upon and crush the larger and stronger lower portion, then crush itself, and do so without the upper portion decelerating upon impacting the lower portion.

And you still haven't been able to provide a single example of a stable structure such as the 3 WTC buildings in which random and asymmetrical structural damage causes symmetrical collapse.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
As already noted, RJ Lee calculated that the iron-rich microspheres constituted about 5.8% of the samples by weight.

We've already been over this. From #91:

Provenance of dust samples analyzed in original work reported here.

Sample 1 was collected from inside the Potter Building located at 38 Park Row in New York City. It was collected by a Ph.D. scientist on 9/14/2001, just three days after the 9/11/2001 and before any major steelcutting operations had begun at ground zero. Rescue operations were on-going at the time of sample collection. Furthermore, the building is located about four blocks from ground zero and the sample was collected from dust that had worked its way inside the building, landing on an interior window sill. Thus, contamination from steelcutting operations at ground zero (which can produce molten steel spheres) can be ruled out with a very high degree of confidence. The iron-rich spheres collected in sample 1 are evidence of high-temperature melting and violent fragmentation during the WTC destruction and dust formation.

Sample 2 was collected by Jeannette MacKinlay about a week after 9/11/2001, from inside her apartment at 113 Cedar St./110 Liberty St., New York City. WTC dust entered her apartment through two windows which broke as the South Tower collapsed. The holes in the windows were approximately 0.5 m X 0.8 m, and the apartment was on the fourth floor.

In both samples, elements besides iron are often present in the spheres which yield chemical signatures distinct from that of structural steel (such as Al, Si, Cu, K, S; see Figs. 3 and 4). These chemical signatures provide additional evidence that the spheres did not result from steel-cutting operations during clean-up. We have recently obtained a WTC dust sample acquired within twenty minutes of the collapse of the North Tower, near the Brooklyn Bridge, which also shows spherules like those shown in Figs. 1-5. These spheres cannot have originated from the later clean-up operations.​

http://journalof911studies.com/articles/WTCHighTemp.pdf

We've already been over this. The iron-rich spheres are of a distinctly different elemental composition than fly ash. RJ Lee and USGS reported finding both fly ash and the iron-rich spheres.

Prove it.

What caused these "much higher temperatures" after the buildings collapsed?

The presence of molten iron at the time of collapse is well established.

Now all you need to do is explain the cause of these high temperatures needed to vaporize the steel flange and the source of the sulfure.

Diesel ignites at 399°C, not nearly hot enough to melt steel: http://www.tcforensic.com.au/docs/article10.html

Not in the Jones et al. samples.

That's correct, as the experiments show.

So obviously WPI has not figured out the liquid eutectic of the steel flange, and no one has accounted for the high temperatures in WTC 7 required to produce this effect.

So plenty of speculations, and no scientific experiments to suggest their plausibility.

And you remain unable to identify any error in the methodology or conclusions of the Harrit et al. paper, in which the authors "conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips . . . is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material.”

And you haven't accounted for the numerous observed characteristics of controlled demolition of the buildings quoted in #145.

And you haven't been able to provide a single example of a stable structure in which the smaller upper portion can fall upon and crush the larger and stronger lower portion, then crush itself, and do so without the upper portion decelerating upon impacting the lower portion.

And you still haven't been able to provide a single example of a stable structure such as the 3 WTC buildings in which random and asymmetrical structural damage causes symmetrical collapse.

I agree it is speculation. It is speculation that provides alternative explanations rather than shouting conspiracy. It is pretty simple. We needn't create theories about nanothermite when other more plausible theories abound. So...yeah. I will not worry about conspiracies until actual evidence is brought forth.
 
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