Adam and Eve Equal Partners

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Wánting to rule with husband is hardly a punishment, unless it is a desire that is to be left unsatisfied. Y

This isn't a question of what sounds nice, this is a question of what the scripture actually says.

Eve was told you will burdened with difficult experiences in having children, but you will also be attracted to your husband and have the desire to have children. (Think of the many Biblical women who were very very grieved when they could not have children. Abraham's wife, Jacob/ Israel's wife Rachel, Samuel's mother) The two of you shall rule together.

Just remember the scripture also says, "cursed be the ground for thy sake."
Trials will come for your benefit.
Taking not of these things I read all of these things less as punishments and see them more as consequences of their actions. Heads up this is going to be unpleasant and difficult for you, these are some things you can expect but this is for your benefit.

 

[KidatHeart]

I think an interesting question is, "What do you (or would you) expect from the relationship between the (supposed) messiah and his wife?" If you believe in Jesus, do you expect the governorship of the universe to rest solely upon him? Or does his wife share the burden? Would he want his wife to share the burden? If you believe in a different savior, how do you expect that figure to choose to act in regards to a mate?

 

[Me Myself]

This isn't a question of what sounds nice, this is a question of what the scripture actually says.

Eve was told you will burdened with difficult experiences in having children, but you will also be attracted to your husband and have the desire to have children. (Think of the many Biblical women who were very very grieved when they could not have children. Abraham's wife, Jacob/ Israel's wife Rachel, Samuel's mother) The two of you shall rule together.

Just remember the scripture also says, "cursed be the ground for thy sake."
Trials will come for your benefit.
Taking not of these things I read all of these things less as punishments and see them more as consequences of their actions. Heads up this is going to be unpleasant and difficult for you, these are some things you can expect but this is for your benefit.

What I say doesnt sound nice ( wouldnt say anytng concluding women not having the same rights as men would), it does sound coherent though.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

I think an interesting question is, "What do you (or would you) expect from the relationship between the (supposed) messiah and his wife?" If you believe in Jesus, do you expect the governorship of the universe to rest solely upon him? Or does his wife share the burden? Would he want his wife to share the burden? If you believe in a different savior, how do you expect that figure to choose to act in regards to a mate?

Children of God are heirs, and joint heirs with Christ... I think that says something.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

What I say doesnt sound nice ( wouldnt say anytng concluding women not having the same rights as men would), it does sound coherent though.

What I mean is easier to say and flows well when you say it in English.

 

[Me Myself]

What I mean is easier to say and flows well when you say it in English.

I am talking about coherence. That shouldnt change.

God is talking about punishment, saying they will want equal leadership is a punishment... Well wouldnt follow unless its an unatural state or undesirable state for them in some way.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

I am talking about coherence. That shouldnt change.

God is talking about punishment, saying they will want equal leadership is a punishment... Well wouldnt follow unless its an unatural state or undesirable state for them in some way.

Is God talking about punishment, or is he talking about consequences?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Plus if the scripture actually says rule with instead of rule over as I claim it does how can you argue with that? You have given no evidence stating that the Greek and Hebrew actually say have dominion over.

 

[Pegg]

Yeah, another place where our Bible's disagree
" 16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

you are using a bible written in medieval english

most people use bibles which are in modern english today because they are easier for us to read and understand.

However, let me ask you, why didnt God tell Eve that her husband will 'rule over her' when he first created her? Why only now is she is given this information??? What changed from when she was created to what has now happened to them?

As I said in my opening post

“Genesis 3:16 states that Adam is to ‘rule over’ Eve, but this doesn’t make Adam a dictator. … Over in ‘rule over’ uses the Hebrew bet, which means ruling ‘with,’ not ruling ‘over.’ … The concept of interdependent, equal partners is well-grounded in the doctrine of the restored gospel. Eve was Adam’s ‘help meet’ (Genesis 2:18). The original Hebrew for meet means that Eve was adequate for, or equal to, Adam. She wasn’t his servant or his subordinate.”

the reality in the world over the past 6,000 year of history would say otherwise. Women have been, and still are, dominated over by men.

The world we live in started there... the way the world is today is because of what happened back there.

In the plan of happiness, man and woman play equally powerful and equally important roles. For the plan to work, each must hearken to the other. Before God, they stand as equals.

of course they do...and thats how they were before they fell into sin which is the point i made earlier. But with sin came the condition we have had for the past 6,000 years... a very poor condition of man ruling over women with an iron fist.

 

[Pegg]

This isn't a question of what sounds nice, this is a question of what the scripture actually says.

Eve was told you will burdened with difficult experiences in having children, but you will also be attracted to your husband and have the desire to have children. (Think of the many Biblical women who were very very grieved when they could not have children. Abraham's wife, Jacob/ Israel's wife Rachel, Samuel's mother) The two of you shall rule together.

Just remember the scripture also says, "cursed be the ground for thy sake."
Trials will come for your benefit.
Taking not of these things I read all of these things less as punishments and see them more as consequences of their actions. Heads up this is going to be unpleasant and difficult for you, these are some things you can expect but this is for your benefit.

Yaddo, if what you say is correct, and the scripture in genesis really did mean that the woman would rule with the man, why didnt God install that into the mosaic law when he gave it to moses?

That law was supposed to teach mankind the right way to live... why isnt it mentioned in there that women should rule with men?

 

[Ingledsva]

The big assumption she makes is how immediate things were.
Where does it say Adam became dominiatave over Eve?

What exactly are you trying to say?

 

[Ingledsva]

Yeah, another place where our Bible's disagree
" 16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

As I said in my opening post

“Genesis 3:16 states that Adam is to ‘rule over’ Eve, but this doesn’t make Adam a dictator. … Over in ‘rule over’ uses the Hebrew bet, which means ruling ‘with,’ not ruling ‘over.’ … The concept of interdependent, equal partners is well-grounded in the doctrine of the restored gospel. Eve was Adam’s ‘help meet’ (Genesis 2:18). The original Hebrew for meet means that Eve was adequate for, or equal to, Adam. She wasn’t his servant or his subordinate.”

In the plan of happiness, man and woman play equally powerful and equally important roles. For the plan to work, each must hearken to the other. Before God, they stand as equals.

~Ensign, April 2013, Equal Partnership in Marriage

It appears you are the one who is not listening.

Interesting. Those last couple words usually translated as "he shall rule over," can be read as, "and he also with shall bear." Then it lists his punishment.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

The Bible does not say Adam became dominiatave over Eve.
Pegg makes the assumption that as soon as they sinned Adam began dominating over Eve.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Yaddo, if what you say is correct, and the scripture in genesis really did mean that the woman would rule with the man, why didnt God install that into the mosaic law when he gave it to moses?

That law was supposed to teach mankind the right way to live... why isnt it mentioned in there that women should rule with men?

Back in Moses's day they had the Moses, the prophet who wrote the book of Genesis. They didn't need "The husband shalt not dominate over his wife" in the 10 commandments for the same reason it is not listed among the 10 commandments, "to multiply and fill the earth."

 

[Ingledsva]

1 Corinthians 11:3
''But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.''

by what authority does man have to tell the Christ what to do ? by what authority does the Christ have to tell God what to do ?

This is Paul speaking - not Jesus - and I will add this is much later, after they are already having trouble understanding the language of the OT.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

This is Paul speaking - not Jesus - and I will add this is much later, after they are already having trouble understanding the language of the OT.

I believe Paul is talking about priesthood authority.
Women were never given the priesthood authority, I believe it was not because they were unworthy of it, but because they have a different calling in life in child baring and other womanly duties. The priesthood however is the man's duty.

Do you believe men are better than women because of their gender?
I do not believe this is the case at all. I very strongly believe men and women are created equal, but with different duties in life to fulfill. Both are meant to be one, yet one is not better than the other individually.

 

[Pegg]

The Bible does not say Adam became dominiatave over Eve.
Pegg makes the assumption that as soon as they sinned Adam began dominating over Eve.

what do you think dominate means?

it is the same as 'rule over' ..... it means to control, govern, or rule by superior authority or power

its the same thing, but the word dominate is more to the point of how that 'rulership' played out in the longrun.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

you are using a bible written in medieval english

most people use bibles which are in modern english today because they are easier for us to read and understand.

However, let me ask you, why didnt God tell Eve that her husband will 'rule over her' when he first created her? Why only now is she is given this information??? What changed from when she was created to what has now happened to them?




the reality in the world over the past 6,000 year of history would say otherwise. Women have been, and still are, dominated over by men.

The world we live in started there... the way the world is today is because of what happened back there.



of course they do...and thats how they were before they fell into sin which is the point i made earlier. But with sin came the condition we have had for the past 6,000 years... a very poor condition of man ruling over women with an iron fist.

1) Just because you have a hard time understanding Old English does not mean I have a difficult time understanding Old English. I have been taught the ways of Old English since I was a baby.

2) God didn't tell Eve that Adam would "Rule Over" her ever.
God did however state that Eve was a help-meet for Adam, an equal partner for Adam.

3) As I previously said, a lot changed for Adam and Eve when they fell, and God was telling them the consequences of their decision. They would both be tried, but they would have each other. It may not be pleasant for women to go through child birth, but it seems to be something innate within them. My daughter is 2 now and I find it super intriguing the fascination she has always had with being around other baby's. I didn't have to teach her to play with dolls, she was born with a natural attraction to play with baby dolls.
It is difficult for women to bare children, but from my observations it is something they naturally have the desire to do. And their husbands shall rule with them as parents and equal partners.

4)God has never taught that men should have dominion over their wives, nor that wives should have dominion over their husbands. Those are Satan's carnal teachings.

 

[Ingledsva]

I believe Paul is talking about priesthood authority.
Women were never given the priesthood authority, I believe it was not because they were unworthy of it, but because they have a different calling in life in child baring and other womanly duties. The priesthood however is the man's duty.

Do you believe men are better than women because of their gender?
I do not believe this is the case at all. I very strongly believe men and women are created equal, but with different duties in life to fulfill. Both are meant to be one, yet one is not better than the other individually.

No, I don't think men are superior to women. Nor do I believe just men were appointed to the clergy. The Bible tells us of female disciples, a Deaconess, women whom preached and gave prophecy from the temples, led the people, etc. There are also several books out there about women in the early church.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

No, I don't think men are superior to women. Nor do I believe just men were appointed to the clergy. The Bible tells us of female disciples, a Deaconess, women whom preached and gave prophecy from the temples, led the people, etc. There are also several books out there about women in the early church.

Now I have heard of prophetesses, but I have never heard of a Deaconess, enlighten me, what reference speaks of a Deaconess?