Adam and Eve

[Valjean]

I don't agree, I take them as literally true.
I don't think they are made up.

You don't feel they're made up.

 

[Valjean]

... Belief is a judgment humans make because we are uncertain about any given concept. Belief is not fact. Any belief is subject to correction and error.

Wouldn't that rule out the concept of "fact" completely, if everything's uncertain?
How would any belief be judged erroneous, or a belief corrected, if there were no facts in play to make any judgements?

 

[night912]

Because i believe what the teaching says about that. The teaching clearly say Muhammad is the prophet who deliver the message from Allah to the human beings. That means the teaching is from Allah.
I do not need science to tell me what to belive to be true or not, that comes from my own research in spiritual teachings.

So your method to differentiate teachings of Allah and of Man is believe the teachings of Man. That's a poor method you have there.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So your method to differentiate teachings of Allah and of Man is believe the teachings of Man. That's a poor method you have there.

You are free to hold your opinion about how i believe.

 

[Valjean]

So your method to differentiate teachings of Allah and of Man is believe the teachings of Man. That's a poor method you have there.

First you have to establish Allah as authentic, then establish his beliefs as correct and correctly reported.

What are the beliefs of man? It seems to me there are lots of beliefs of man -- many of them contradictory. Only those rooted in observable, repeatble, testable, predictive evidence seem to be generally consistent.

How do you differentiate the beliefs of Allah from the beliefs of Krishna, Zoroaster or Huitzilopochtli?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

All the Abrahamic religions have some teaching about Adam and Eve (as far as i know)
The question is, is Adam and Eve the true names of the very first human beings? or is that something that come later?
If they were the first humanoids on earth, do they not predate Homosapiens too?
Where they actually a different form of humans?

In Scripture, Adam and Eve trace back to 6,000 plus years.
Adam and Eve are the English translation of their Hebrew names.
Father Adam and Mother Eve are as the humans as we see today.
Because of their disobedience they passed down to us their fallen nature.
Since we are innocent of what they did is why God sent His heavenly Son to Earth for us.
Only a sinless person could balance the Scales of Justice for us, and undo the harm sinners Satan and Adam brought upon us.
Because we can't resurrect oneself or another we need someone who could resurrect us - Jesus can and will.
Then, mankind can get to know the healthy human perfection that Adam and Eve originally had before disobedience.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But science has answers nonetheless that can't be dismissed due to indifference. .......................

I would like to add that ' known ' science can have answers, but there is yet a lot which is still unknown science.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Learn evolution.
There is a very slow transition from ape to human. A bit like going from Black to White, there is no distinct moment when black stops being grey and becomes white

Surely God could have used evolution is lower forms of life, but Not in the case of Adam and Eve.
Notice: Adam was 'fashioned' (Not evolved) from the dust of the ground - Genesis 2:7
To me that is the distinct moment, Not of transition, but of God forming life from existing Earth.
Man did Not come to life until his God 'breathed the breath of life' into life-less Adam.
We are the ' clay ', so to speak, and God is the ' Potter '.

 

[idea]

I do not need science to tell me what to belive to be true or not,....

Have you ever been to a museum with dinosaur bones? If it was you digging in the dirt coming across this stuff (I have seen footprints and found small fossils while out hiking), what do you think about these?

Do you believe prophets are 100% perfect, never making any mistakes? For Christians Jesus is the only 100% perfect person, all of the prophets are only humans who make mistakes. For Muslims, is God the only perfect being, and all humans - including prophets - imperfect? How do you view prophets? Is your faith in human prophets, or is your faith only in a higher spiritual power, only faith in God?

I used to have too much faith in humans. Now I know it is only God that I am supposed to have faith in.

 

[F1fan]

Surely God could have used evolution is lower forms of life, but Not in the case of Adam and Eve.
Notice: Adam was 'fashioned' (Not evolved) from the dust of the ground - Genesis 2:7
To me that is the distinct moment, Not of transition, but of God forming life from existing Earth.
Man did Not come to life until his God 'breathed the breath of life' into life-less Adam.
We are the ' clay ', so to speak, and God is the ' Potter '.

You're not suggesting you interpret these Genesis stories literally, are you?

 

[rational experiences]

Humans never owned names. We use names in family groups or civilization for conversations.

Bible includes maths

Letters were given a number in secret codes.

Even balanced changed.

+ Cross N is North point pole.

Maths given a false female name space a womb. Space is just space.

Maths fake. Fake female blame Eve when even heaven balances changed for a count six days.

 

[Thief]

Dust is not relevant as a description.

you are made of dust

without God as creator...your belief leads to the grave and no further

what? 7billion copies of a learning device
and it all ends in dust?

not one chance in billions to survive the last breath?

then life on this planet is a complete mystery
without resolve

extinction pending

dust we shall be

 

[Spirit of Light]

Have you ever been to a museum with dinosaur bones? If it was you digging in the dirt coming across this stuff (I have seen footprints and found small fossils while out hiking), what do you think about these?

Do you believe prophets are 100% perfect, never making any mistakes? For Christians Jesus is the only 100% perfect person, all of the prophets are only humans who make mistakes. For Muslims, is God the only perfect being, and all humans - including prophets - imperfect? How do you view prophets? Is your faith in human prophets, or is your faith only in a higher spiritual power, only faith in God?

I used to have too much faith in humans. Now I know it is only God that I am supposed to have faith in.

Personally i have not much interest in digging out old bones, but i seen dinosaur bones before yes.

A prophet may do wrong when learning the message from Allah, i see a prophet as a spiritual teacher . A prophet will do less and less wrong. I have not met a prophet in real life so i can not say if they are perfect or not. But as you say Allah is the perfect being.

 

[F1fan]

Wouldn't that rule out the concept if "fact" completely, if everything's uncertain?
How would any belief be judged erroneous, or a belief corrected, if there were no facts in play to make any judgements?

We aren't uncertain of facts. We are uncertain of beliefs. As an example we can't be certain OJ did it, but the evidence suggests it is highly likely likely he did, so it's reasonable to believe he's guilty. We can't be certain that Jesus being executed actually brings about salvation for people after death. It's a rather absurd concept and highly unlikely, so no objective thinker would believe it's true. Cats exist as a matter of fact, we don't have to believe cats exist because we can observe existing as they tear up the leather couch.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Surely God could .. the ' Potter '.

All facts - without any evidence, except that perhaps Jesus might have existed in history.

Do you believe prophets are 100% perfect, never making any mistakes?
I used to have too much faith in humans. Now I know it is only God that I am supposed to have faith in.

Are there any prophets?
I think you still have to learn many things.

you are made of dust
without God as creator...your belief leads to the grave and no further

then life on this planet is a complete mystery

Even with God it leads to the grave and no further.
Life is not a mystery. You first create the mystery and then create your own solution. It is fun. No?

 

[F1fan]

you are made of dust

Humans aren't made of dust.

without God as creator...your belief leads to the grave and no further

Demonstrate that a god/creator exists outs
ide of your imagination.

what? 7billion copies of a learning device
and it all ends in dust?

not one chance in billions to survive the last breath?

then life on this planet is a complete mystery
without resolve

extinction pending

dust we shall be

If you're a Kansas fan you can sing Dust In The Wind. But it's not a valid argument that we are made of dust.

The next time you empty your vacuum cleaner out how many humans are you flushing down the toilet?

 

[rational experiences]

Dust was a man applied science nuclear conversion.

Ask a man how did you get your human image in the gas heavens. Recorded living life of a man and voice recorded?

Because science is artificial change to held fixed stable fusion.

You told the story I was wrong yourself. As a man..as an adult...as a father who said life continuance was the baby human life.

You taught against your own destroyer science mentality yet still use it.

You said ice was why the ancient hot heavenly dinosaur gas state had cooled.

Ice

Ice is not a dust. Ice was not invented by God. It is a caused condition.
Caused condition is not fixed.

 

[YoursTrue]

Humans aren't made of dust.


Demonstrate that a god/creator exists outs
ide of your imagination.


If you're a Kansas fan you can sing Dust In The Wind. But it's not a valid argument that we are made of dust.

The next time you empty your vacuum cleaner out how many humans are you flushing down the toilet?

When a person dies, what happens to his body?

 

[YoursTrue]

you are made of dust

without God as creator...your belief leads to the grave and no further

what? 7billion copies of a learning device
and it all ends in dust?

not one chance in billions to survive the last breath?

then life on this planet is a complete mystery
without resolve

extinction pending

dust we shall be

lol, you made me laugh in a good way when you spoke of chances --

 

[YoursTrue]

First you have to establish Allah as authentic, then establish his beliefs as correct and correctly reported.

What are the beliefs of man? It seems to me there are lots of beliefs of man -- many of them contradictory. Only those rooted in observable, repeatble, testable, predictive evidence seem to be generally consistent.

Yes...but that doesn't happen with the theory of evolution. (There ARE no tests...)