Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
I deleted the message so no confusion is made
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Adam and Eve
- Thread starter Spirit of Light
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firedragon
Veteran Member
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
I am not in to etymology
I would not taken those teachings too literally. They are a bit like Alice and Bob as used by physicists and mathematicians.
Ciao
- viole
firedragon
Veteran Member
I believe it is not a historical story but a metaphor and parable for pointing out that we suffer when we turn away from God and spiritual laws. If you look closely at the story, the consequences of disobedience to God resulted in things like murder, jealousy and hate which we see now a lot in today’s world because man has turned away from God.
Paradise is nearness to God while hell is to be far from Him. Today the world is in a hell because it has chosen materialism not spirituality.
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Like many have said, it's a bit pointless, since the story (which it surely just is) is just an explanation (in line with other stories or myths) as to how humans came about - and not being at all factual. Just like the beginnings of the universe and life itself is explained away in a similar fashion. At least that is how I see such explanations. It just doesn't make any sense, given how we seemingly developed and transitioned through the primate line, to talk of any 'original duo'. If one has more trust in the scientific evidence over any religious texts of course - which surprisingly I do have.
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I don't agree, I take them as literally true.
I don't think they are made up.
firedragon
Veteran Member
The meanings of the two names Adam and Eve should be taken into account in this discussion if anyone is interested. The word Adam stems from its meaning of Red soil to put it together. This basically means earth. Adam as a word is generally used in the Tanakh in my understanding as "man". Ben Adam means Son of Men. This is prevalent in both the Quran and Genesis. Only the Septuagint has translated the word Adam as Man (Anthropos) first as in a general reference to human and then later in Genesis as Adam making it a proper name for the person.
The word Eve or Hawwah is predominantly believed as far as I know to mean the inception of life or the source of life. Jews will know better of course. This word is not mentioned in the Qur'an. A Zawjah or Spouse is mentioned in the Quran. Thus, it is not so easy to make names out of them. The Quran repeatedly addresses humanity as "bani Adama", children of Adam. Just the same way it addresses Children of Israel referring to Israelites. But one must think since Adama radically meaning Earth and soil, does it mean children of earth and soil?? Is the so called first man just named earth and soil? The bare earth.
Both are not typical names of individuals. This has to be considered.
The word Eve or Hawwah is predominantly believed as far as I know to mean the inception of life or the source of life. Jews will know better of course. This word is not mentioned in the Qur'an. A Zawjah or Spouse is mentioned in the Quran. Thus, it is not so easy to make names out of them. The Quran repeatedly addresses humanity as "bani Adama", children of Adam. Just the same way it addresses Children of Israel referring to Israelites. But one must think since Adama radically meaning Earth and soil, does it mean children of earth and soil?? Is the so called first man just named earth and soil? The bare earth.
Both are not typical names of individuals. This has to be considered.
SCIENCE AND RELIGION GO HAND IN HAND:
Science isn't the enemy of religion, it is truth, just as true religion is truth.
God doesn't like liars.
In modern times, Christians tell lies, and those lies disagree with science. They tell lies about mankind's influence on Global Warming. They tell lies about motives to fight wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. They tell lies about how good God is.
Christians believe the the universe is 6,000 years old, but scientists say it is 13.8 billion years old. Dinosaur bones radioactive date to 6,000,000 years ago (and older). The fact is, special relativity says that time slows at fast speeds, and general relativity says that time slows in strong gravitational fields. So, science says that it is entirely possible that God's time is not our time, and both time estimates could be correct for the age of the universe.
CREATURES OLDER THAN HUMANS:
Science (DNA) says that an ancient branch of our species (Neanderthals) interbred with humans. Another ancient branch of our species (Denisovans) bred with Micronesians. In Russia, a 2020 discovery proved that Neanderthals bred with Denisovans. No one has yDNA of a Neanderthal, because the male line died out. Likewise, no one has mtDNA of a Neanderthal because the female line died out. However, the mixed lines (mixture of male and female) exist with up to 6% Neanderthal yDNA.
BIBLE DISCUSSED NEPHILIM:
Genesis 6:4: The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
Numbers 13:33: We saw the Nehilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."
Nephilim - Wikipedia
Link says: Some bibles translate Nephilim as giants. "
The story of the Nephilim is further elaborated in the Book of Enoch. The Greek, Aramaic, and main Ge'ez manuscripts of 1 Enoch and Jubilees obtained in the 19th century and held in the British Museum and Vatican Library, connect the origin of the Nephilim with the fallen angels"...."And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: "Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children."
NEANDERTHAL ARCHAEOLOGY IN ISRAEL:
Bones found in Israel rewrite theory of Neanderthal extinction
65,000 year old Neanderthal bones were found in Ein Kashish, Israel, not inside a cave (normally finds of Neanderthal bones and in caves). A crude flint spear point was also found. They also found red ochre (indicating that they used a pigment). Evidence shows that Neanderthal ritualistically buried their dead (religion?).
In Cave in Israel, Scientists Find Jawbone Fossil From Oldest Modern Human Out of Africa (Published 2018)
In 2018, a jawbone of a modern man was found in a collapsed cave in Israel, that dated from 177,000 years and 194,000 years old. This is much earlier than theories, which thought that mankind migrated out of Africa around 125,000 years ago.
POST NOAH:
If the flood wiped out everyone and all animals, the interbreeding must have occurred before the flood. Who, then, did Noah's kids breed with?
Hermit Philosopher
Selflessly here for you
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
I can not answer for the christans
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
The mistake that science makes is to assume Adam and Eve is about DNA and that DNA, alone, is what makes a human a human. There is also the brain's operating system, which also evolves with time, using the same human DNA. Adam the first human, was about the brain's operating system and not just the DNA.
For example, the formation of civilization meant the hunter, gatherers and herders that appear during the last ice age, suddenly stop for civilization and begin to alter eons of instinctive behavior patterns. The human DNA does not show any giant genetic change in proportion to how civilization changes things for humans. The change was in the brain's operating system. It was old DNA computer with an update. What changed was the human ego appears; secondary center, along with will power and choice that could go outside of instinct. Civilization required a lot of new choices; stop instead of wander.
If you look at Adam and Eve, neither were birthed in any semblance of normal biological means. The wandering herders, before civilization, would have known about how natural birth occurs; DNA based, via their animals. The fact that Adam come from dust and Eve was like a clone of Adam; rib bone, shows a type of birth not connected to natural for DNA reproduction. Had Adam or Eve had parents, like the gods of mythology, then it would be biological; DNA. Their birth is distinct and intended not to be confused with biological. It appears to confuse the atheist and science.
Adam comes from the dust of the earth. Eve comes from a rib of Adam. The ribs protect the heart. Eve came from the heart, in a figurative sense. Adam and Eve were the first two humans with the new advanced operating system of the modern human brain. They had old human DNA, but a new operating system; first modern humans. The old operating system of the herders, gatherers and wanderers was different and more natural. I call these the pre-humans, in the software sense. They were not a good natural fit for civilization, until after the update.
One science based hint for this change, is connected to the discovery that written language appears about 6000 years ago. In the beginning was the word and the word was God. The invention of writing times out with the biblical time scale of the new creation.
Written language would alter natural human nature, since it could cause repression of instinct by allowing ideas, carved into stone, to linger beyond the natural attrition of memory. Bad ideas, carved into stone, will become long term repressive and can dam up the natural flow of instinct. Adam was made from stone dust. He may have been the inventor of writing and his invention changed him, first, and then he changed his wife Eve so she could be with him; reached her to write and read; from the heart or route learning.
A loose analogy is the industrial revolution, where humans leave the farm and learn to become more urban, with the natural ways of the life changed forever. The invention of writing was even more profound since it involved natural pre-humans, forced to become different.
I do not mean this in a negative way, but consider how holy books, assumed to be infallible, can alter human behavior, to where the atheists think the behavior created is abnormal. When writing first appears, it was much more magical and would suppress instinct in favor of the needs of civilization. This would have resulted in a new unnatural operating system slowly appearing in the children. Genesis has the first generation of humans becoming very unnatural. The flood of Noah signals a second major update to get rid of the bugs. After that, things get brighter. Two of each animal is a return to natural male and female instinct.
In modern times, the calendar of western history has BC then AD, with the clock reset to 1 at AD. This is not about DNA, but about the brain changing it's operating system, again, leading to the dark ages. The DNA will not reflect this, since the brain can learn apart from the DNA, although the DNA does induce propensities for learning.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
And why would you believe that? What's your evidence for that?
Adam and Eve are not proper names as the stories go in English. I'm not sure what the words mean in the original Hebrew, that should be the question. If I recall correctly Adam means "man" in some language that was kept as new translations came about.
Of course there's no reason to assume and believe the Genesis stories are true literally.
So you have decided to reject science because you prefer religious belief? Is this a conscious and deliberate decision, or one driven by some sort of inner emotional conflict?
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
I leave science be science, and focus my life on gaining inner wisdom from the teaching of religion.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
this one thing in particular.....
And the Lord took the Man ....which He made of dust
and placed him in a garden
that Adam was made of dust does NOT make him unique
ALL men are made of dust
you too
what makes Adam unique..........he was the FIRST to walk with God
Is it not wise to accept explanations of how the universe works via our intellect?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
let this be your repost for a fresh topic