Adam and his wife died physically after eating the Forbidden Fruit. Genesis 2:17 is Literal.

[Twilight Hue]

Look, I gave you a list of scientific errors in Post #271, in order to show how science continues to learn and grow from it's own mistakes. In that self-same post, I asked you to "give us some examples of when religious dogma was discovered to be wrong and something good came from it." You did nothing of the kind -- instead, you listed more science mistakes, which was ridiculous since I had already conceded the point that science, being a human construct, does indeed make mistakes.

Be honest -- go look at the post, then your responses -- then tell me I put my fingers in my ears when you answered honsetly. You will not be able to do it, as any other reader of this thread will easily be able to confirm.

You always did have a problem accepting another person's answers.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

You always did have a problem accepting another person's answers.

Only when they disingenuously answer the opposite of what I asked. As you did.

 

[YoursTrue]

You have consistently and stoically have clung to and anti-science agenda based on an ancient tribal agenda. You consistently mock science.

You cannot be consistent about science when you selectively accept which science you agree with and be honest about science. 95% plus od all the academic scientists in the world support the unity of the sciences of evolution as an integral part of ALL science. It is the fundamentalists of Christianity and Islam that hide with the intentional ignorant in Plato's Cave. This is demonstrated by your clinging to the ancient mythology of Genesis in rejecting science.

You actually consistently misuse the terminology of science in your rants against science,

I'm not sure what you mean. Take care and maybe you can explain yourself.

 

[shunyadragon]

I'm not sure what you mean. Take care and maybe you can explain yourself.

Ir you have difficulty reading it. Here it is in bold.

You have consistently and stoically have clung to and anti-science agenda based on an ancient tribal agenda. You consistently mock science.

You cannot be consistent about science when you selectively accept which science you agree with and be honest about science. 95% plus od all the academic scientists in the world support the unity of the sciences of evolution as an integral part of ALL science. It is the fundamentalists of Christianity and Islam that hide with the intentional ignorant in Plato's Cave. This is demonstrated by your clinging to the ancient mythology of Genesis in rejecting science.

You actually consistently misuse the terminology of science in your rants against science,

 

[YoursTrue]

Ir you have difficulty reading it. Here it is in bold.

You have consistently and stoically have clung to and anti-science agenda based on an ancient tribal agenda. You consistently mock science.

You cannot be consistent about science when you selectively accept which science you agree with and be honest about science. 95% plus od all the academic scientists in the world support the unity of the sciences of evolution as an integral part of ALL science. It is the fundamentalists of Christianity and Islam that hide with the intentional ignorant in Plato's Cave. This is demonstrated by your clinging to the ancient mythology of Genesis in rejecting science.

You actually consistently misuse the terminology of science in your rants against science,

Bold or not, you are not being accurate. Anyway -- have a nice day.

 

[YoursTrue]

Ir you have difficulty reading it. Here it is in bold.

You have consistently and stoically have clung to and anti-science agenda based on an ancient tribal agenda. You consistently mock science.

You cannot be consistent about science when you selectively accept which science you agree with and be honest about science. 95% plus od all the academic scientists in the world support the unity of the sciences of evolution as an integral part of ALL science. It is the fundamentalists of Christianity and Islam that hide with the intentional ignorant in Plato's Cave. This is demonstrated by your clinging to the ancient mythology of Genesis in rejecting science.

You actually consistently misuse the terminology of science in your rants against science,

If scientists believed every other scientist or proposition, there would be no discussion or controversies among them.
Stop ranting, maybe you'll do better in your reasoning (the lack thereof). I recommend you take a deep breath and think about what you are saying.

 

[shunyadragon]

If scientists believed every other scientist or proposition, there would be no discussion or controversies among them.

There are indeed controversies, differences and disagreements among scientists, and the knowledge advances and changes over time. You posted a reference the showed ten significant things were the knowledge of science advances and changes over time. This is positive advancement and change in knowledge. The foundation support is in overwhelming for the academic sciences of evolution and cosmology time frame of over billions of years. ALL the sciences of Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Geology, Genetics, Paleontology, Organic Chemistry, and the support from math are the foundation of the sciences of evolution,

It is an important issue that you do not accept that the knowledge of academic science and history advances and changes over time.

Stop ranting, maybe you'll do better in your reasoning (the lack thereof). I recommend you take a deep breath and think about what you are saying.

No ranting and no deep breath necessary. Just the academic facts and knowledge of academic science and history you reject based on an ancient tribal agenda.

You seriously need to think about your rejection of science.

 

[YoursTrue]

There are indeed controversies, differences and disagreements among scientists, and the knowledge advances and changes over time. You posted a reference the showed ten significant things were the knowledge of science advances and changes over time. This is positive advancement and change in knowledge. The foundation support is in overwhelming for the academic sciences of evolution and cosmology time frame of over billions of years. ALL the sciences of Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Geology, Genetics, Paleontology, Organic Chemistry, and the support from math are the foundation of the sciences of evolution,

It is an important issue that you do not accept that the knowledge of academic science and history advances and changes over time.


No ranting and no deep breath necessary. Just the academic facts and knowledge of academic science and history you reject based on an ancient tribal agenda.

You seriously need to think about your rejection of science.

There is simply nothing to demonstrate in reality beyond question that fish evolved to become humans. If you think that it is beyond question that fish evolved eventually to become humans, have a good one and bye. But in all fairness, maybe you do not believe that fish evolved eventually to become humans.

 

[shunyadragon]

There is simply nothing to demonstrate in reality beyond question that fish evolved to become humans. If you think that it is beyond question that fish evolved eventually to become humans, have a good one and bye. But in all fairness, maybe you do not believe that fish evolved eventually to become humans.

I believe beyond any doubt that all life on earth is genetically related and evolved from the first life beginning billions of years ago,

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe beyond any doubt that all life on earth is genetically related and evolved from the first life beginning billions of years ago,

According to what I read and understand, Adam came from the ground, or soil. And Eve came from Adam's rib, so she is genetically very much related to the man. I do not contest that. Meaning that I do not look to evolution as the answer via abiogenesis.
Adam realized Eve would die when she offered him the fruit. He took it. He loved her more than God. So they both died and we are their offspring. Soil itself is full of life by the way. Exactly how the first lifeforms came into existence is a mystery and may always be.

 

[Esteban X]

Is there an English translation that you have found that more accurately conveys the meaning? I would like to see one if you have it.

There is something in Bible that says not to change the shape of a single letter. Assuming that the translation is accurate then every translation is invalid.

 

[YoursTrue]

There is something in Bible that says not to change the shape of a single letter. Assuming that the translation is accurate then every translation is invalid.

It does not mean that God does not want it to be translated. What it means is that nothing should be inserted or made something other or appear to be other than what was initially written. Furthermore, the copyists were very careful to be accurate.

 

[shunyadragon]

According to what I read and understand, Adam came from the ground, or soil. And Eve came from Adam's rib, so she is genetically very much related to the man. I do not contest that. Meaning that I do not look to evolution as the answer via abiogenesis.

Adam realized Eve would die when she offered him the fruit. He took it. He loved her more than God. So they both died and we are their offspring. Soil itself is full of life by the way. Exactly how the first lifeforms came into existence is a mystery and may always be.

This is, of course, a world view over 2000 years old if you read only the Bible, and even ignore the evolving philosophies of Greek and Rome like Lucretius. Your cosmology would be a geocentric universe with an earth fixed in space supported by pillars.

 

[YoursTrue]

This is, of course, a world over 2000 years old if you read only the Bible, and even ignore the evolving philosophies of Greek and Rome like Lucretius. Your cosmology would be a geocentric universe with the earth supported by pillars.

Meantime, there is something like gravity as well as poetic usage of language. I'm quite certain that men looking into the heavens did not see literal pillars supporting anything.

 

[firedragon]

Adam and his wife died *physically* after partaking of the Forbidden Fruit. Moreover, it was on that very day...

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

• Day means Day, as in twenty-four hours or less.
• Surely Die means Surely Die, as in physical death.

As far as I know, I am the only person on the planet that believes the above verse.

Both Christians and Non-Christians alike will take away and add words to the verse to make it state something it does not.

Some examples include...

• Spiritual Death: Adam and his wife 'died Spiritually'.
• Begin to Age: The 'aging process' for Adam and his wife 'began ticking'.
• Day is a Thousand Years: Adam and his wife 'died within a thousand-year timeframe'.

Note that taking away and adding to the Word of God is of course a very big no-no, yet everyone does it with Genesis 2:17.

There is no need however, to alter the verse. Genesis 2:17 agrees with the entire Bible when taken literally.

In fact, it is the *only* way in which it does!

Does that mean when the Bible says "the soul that sins" will die, it's a physical death?

All of us are dead.

 

[YoursTrue]

Does that mean when the Bible says "the soul that sins" will die, it's a physical death?

All of us are dead.

Yep except for the hope that we can be forgiven for our sins by means of Christ Jesus.

 

[firedragon]

Yep except for the hope that we can be forgiven for our sins by means of Christ Jesus.

So you are affirming that sinner dies a physical death?

 

[YoursTrue]

@firedragon We die physically when the brain is dead. We die because we all have sinned due to what we inherit from our first parents. That does not mean that we cannot do our best to adhere to God's requirements to please Him. Nevertheless we all are slated to die. Romans 5:12 - Through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned,” the Bible says at Romans 5:12. But there is the hope outlined in the Bible that assures us of life in the future in peace and happiness.

 

[firedragon]

We die physically when the brain is dead.

Nope. the Bible is not talking about an immediate death physically. It's the most stupid notion I have ever heard.

All the incarcerated rapists and murderers are "alive".

It's a spiritual death mate.

I don't wish to further this discussion.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I could quite easily agree with you about this, if (and only if) that meant treating religious scripture as metaphorical only, and not historical -- and certainly not scientific.

My point of departure is that the scriptures are talking about the same historical events. I would like to share a paper that gives more details about this, about tracing the parallel narratives in different religions. Please share your contact details because file is too large to share.