Adam and his wife died physically after eating the Forbidden Fruit. Genesis 2:17 is Literal.

[Yokefellow]

I am a Seventh Day Adventist and we are one of the few religious denominations who do take a literal view of both the Genesis and flood accounts and we believe they are critical to the story of salvation.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. I was an SDA for a short period. I was Catholic before that. I am currently non-denominational.

There is also the notion that death did not exist in the garden prior to the fall and im certain that was what God was actually referring to.

I agree. Death entered into the world after the Fall...

Romans 5:12
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned"

We view death as an absolute, however, in those days it did not exist...so what God was saying is, "Adam if you eat of this fruit, you will no longer live forever, your life will end one day in death and that process will start immediately in the day that you eat of the fruit." In that day death will become part of your existence

You are very close to what I believe. The First Adam and Ishshah (not Eve) were already immortal to begin with. The difference is that I believe their life ended on that very day... as in twenty-four hours or less. The rest of the story is about their re-creation process... hence the Second Adam and Eve.

The phrase 'surely die' is used twenty-two times in the Bible. They all mean imminent death with the added emphasis on the person being disobedient to God. For me to change 'surely die' in one verse makes it contradict the rest of the verses that use that phrase.

Per the rules I go by, I cannot have contradictions in my interpretations. The phrase 'surely die' must have a consistent meaning no matter where it is used.

This is also a concept which proves TEism absolutely wrong to btw...as they must believe that physical death was not a consequence of sin in order to overcome the dilemma of natural selection and death cycle for millions of years up to the point of Adam and Eves sin. The huge theological problem with the claim that sin did not also bring physical death into this world for the first time in the Garden of Eden is Christ incarnation and death on the cross. Christ died physically for the wages of sin...if death was only spiritual, why did Christ die physically and the blood of sheeps and goats be shed as an illustration of this for thousands of years prior to Christ? Finally, why is the second coming also a physical event?

Excellent pioints.

Interestingly enough, one of the first things that Adam and Eve noticed after they ate the fruit is that they were naked. The glory of God that enveloped them had departed...they had separated themselves from their source of eternal life.

I like it.

Note that they were naked before the Fall...

Genesis 2:25
"And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."

I would add that the word 'naked' means that they did not have a physical Body or Tabernacle yet...

2 Corinthians 5:2-3
"For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked."

'Not ashamed' means they did not have reproductive organs.

The point of the Forbidden Fruit vs. the Fruit of the Tree of Life was to choose which 'Body Tabernacle' they would like to be 'clothed' with. At the same time, they were choosing which Parents to be Born Again into...

Sarah: Tree of Life (Freedom)
Hagar: Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (Bondage)

They chose Bondage. Thus, they received an 'Earthly Tabernacle Body' of corruption via the Zygote Forbidden Fruit of Hagar.

What is really interesting is that they turned to leaves of trees in order to cover their nakedness.

Indeed.

Fortunately, the leaves on the Tree of Life will provide the Glorified Covering in New Jerusalem...

Revelation 22:2
"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."

It is a one-time thing to partake. Once One partakes, they are literally Born Again.

..thus even nature itself became corrupted by their sin as it was used in an attempt to hide their sin...to cover it up. I think this is also why God cursed the ground...to show sin cannot be hidden and its consequences are absolute.

I believe that they were trying to hide what was not there before. They now had reproductive organs and they did not want God to notice. That is where 'shame' comes from...

Revelation 16:15
"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."

What is the 'shame' that they will see? Reproductive organs... their 'Private Parts'.

Can i just take particular note of one claim you have made regarding the second Adam and Eve being his second replacement wife after the fall... this is 100% false and unbiblical...Adam was not resurrected into a new person, nor did he get a new wife. Eve is the very same person who was made out of him on the 6th day.

We will have to agree to disagree. I realize this is difficult for most to receive, and I understand why you would reject it.

Recall the promise that God made to them in Genesis 3?

14So the LORD God said to the serpent:

“Because you have done this,

cursed are you above all livestock

and every beast of the field!

On your belly will you go,

and dust you will eat,

all the days of your life.

15And I will put enmity between you and the woman,

and between your seed and her seed.

He will crush your head,

and you will strike his heel.c”

Genesis 3:15 is specifically talking about the incarnation of the Messiah...Christ, who would come to save Gods creation.

You are describing the Milk of the Word. It makes a cute story to tell Children. Note that Jesus is the Seed of Abraham... not the Woman.

The Meat of the Word is that the so called 'Snake' Satan was turned into is Male Seed (Sperm). 'Dust' is DNA... as in the Sperm partakes of the Female Egg Cell.

'Enmity' has a deeper meaning than just 'being in opposition'. It has to do with Original Sin. In other words, it is another word for Conception and the concept of 'Two shall be One'...

Ephesians 2:15-16
"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"

Notice the language? Enmity is all about the Zygote that Adam and Ishshah partook of. The Cross represents two Chromatids joining together in Matrimony. Unfortunately, as stated earlier, Adam and Ishshah chose the wrong Zygote to incarnate into. Jesus is reversing that.

Jesus is reversing the original two Chromatids that joined together way back in the Garden of Eden... like a Reverse Abiogenesis.

It literally is in the context...

Genesis 3:15
"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

Thy Seed = Sperm (Seed of the Serpent)
Her Seed = Ovum (Seed of the Woman)

God is basically inventing the Biology of Conception for the first time because it did not exist before the Fall. Again, look at the context...

Genesis 3:16
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

Conception = Enmity between Sperm and Ovum. The Sperm 'attacks' the Ovum and 'bruises its head' when it enters. Once it is in the Tabernacle Ovum, it goes into the Most Holy Place to 'attack' the Footstool of God and 'bruise his heel'...

The most intimate functions of Ovum Fertilization are being described right there in front of everyone's face! Sadly, the 'Genesis is a Myth' people, like the ones in this very thread, have no idea in the world what they are looking at.

Also, the bible specifically tells us who the second Adam is...is specifically calls Christ the second Adam (i would suggest you read Romans Chapter 5 and 6 (and note 5:18&19)

Semantics and poor translation. Jesus is the First and the Last...

Revelation 22:13
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

When developing bible doctrine, it is vitally important that you cross reference your ideas from a wide range of texts...but not only that, you need to ensure that your theology remains consistent with other bible statements that are self interpreting.

Absolutely!

Finally, your claim regarding Genesis 2:7 and "God formed man out of the dust of the ground" being a reference for mans creation on day three is complete nonesense...that text in no way references anything of the sort. You are simply not udnerstanding that the bible writers regularly "recap" and that is exactly what is happening in here.

Not a 'recap'. Day is literal.

As per the rules God made in Revelation and other places, I must not take away and add unto the Word. Therefore, I cannot change 'day' into 'back in the day', 'six days' etc. for Genesis 2:7.

God was explaining to Adam and Eve that when they die, their bodies would begin to break down..."rot" if you want to use a very blunt word. Adam and Eve now understood what happens when they die.

Yes, they return to the 'food' that the 'Snake' eats...

Genesis 3:19
"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

Dust is the Seed. The Seed is the Word. We are Seeds that grow into a Tabernacle.

Without Christ, Man returns to the 'Ground'... aka... the 'Lowest Parts of the Earth'... aka... 'The Pit'... aka... the Womb of Reincarnation...

 

[Yokefellow]

what happens to me when i die? (those who believe that when we die we go straight to purgatory or heaven might want to think about this btw)

If I were a betting Man, I would bet 100% that you are ultimately going to the New Heavens and New Earth and will enjoy a Glorified Body.

Before that, you would go to Abraham's Bosom. I do not believe in 'Purgatory'.

The Unsaved go to Hell and then the Lake of Fire which is synonymous with the Moment of Conception in a new corrupt body back here on Earth. Our "Genesis is a Myth" friends, sadly, will learn this the hard way.

Lake of Fire = Reincarnation. <-- That is what the Church is hiding and what I am exposing.

We are all Sons of Gehenna...

Matthew 23:15 (Berean Literal Bible)
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you traverse the sea and the dry land to make one convert, and whenever it may happen, you make him twofold more a son of Gehenna than yourselves."

That is how we got here.

 

[Yokefellow]

As stated earlier, there are issues with claiming that Genesis 2 is simply a 'recap' of Genesis 1.

We start with this verse...

Genesis 2:7
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

God creates Man.

Now, according to Genesis 1, plants, trees and animals were supposedly already created before Man showed up.

Why then are trees created again here...

Genesis 2:9
"And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."

Moreover, why are animals being created after Man is created?

Genesis 2:19
"And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."

So many contradictions arise when Genesis 2:17 is not taken literally!

It gets worse...

Genesis 2:18
"And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."

According to Genesis 1, the world is filled with animals, sea creatures, birds, creeping things, etc. yet somehow Man is 'alone'.

So how does God solve the dilemma of Man being alone while surrounded by animals?

God creates animals.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Genesis 2:7
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

And there we have it. Man was originally created on the Third Day, not the Sixth as the Lying Church teaches.

How can you possibly come to this conclusion when the Bible says in Genesis 2:1

1Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. 2And by the seventh day God had finished the work He had been doing; so on that day He rested from all His work.a​

​

3Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on that day He rested from all the work of creation that He had accomplished.​

Your recap complaint is also without basis...because Genesis 2 immediately after the Sabbath recaps by further illustrating the creation of Adam and Eve...

4This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORDb God made them.​

Im sorry Yokefellow, but when an individual starts trying to ignore thousands of years of scholarly bibilcal knowledge in order to come up with a completely unique understanding of scripture, usually ignoring anything that is existing doctrine, then that individual is heading down a pathway of fools errand.

Genesis 2:4 most definately is the introduction of a recap. The bible does this across its pages repeatedly...the fact that you refuse to accept this is deeply worrying and im sorry but your theology is 100% problematic here and it will run into huge biblical conflicts with other self interpreting biblical doctrines as a result.

Anyway, your theology is your own...unfortunately one must eventually come to ones own conclusions about these things so i wont address your other statements. I have spent a great deal of time studying biblical theology (incl at university level), academically there are big problems with the theological claims you have made in previous posts...i fear it will simply descend into a circus discussing them.

'Why did you leave the SDA church btw? Was it because of these doctrines you are presenting on this forum? I can imagine that pushing these kinds of theologies would very quickly see you on the outer with other church members.

 

[Yokefellow]

How can you possibly come to this conclusion when the Bible says in Genesis 2:1

1Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. 2And by the seventh day God had finished the work He had been doing; so on that day He rested from all His work.a​

​

3Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on that day He rested from all the work of creation that He had accomplished.​

That is the end of Chapter 1 account.

What is written next in Chapter 2 is a 'retelling' or 'summary' of the creation account with more details added. You refer to this as a 'recap'.

I may not have been clear, and I apologize. I agree that there is a recap as you put it. The problem is that no one is able to succinctly explain step by step why everything is not only out of order, but contradictory to their interpretation of Genesis 1.

I was showing how the Church has no answers for that.

Im sorry Yokefellow, but when an individual starts trying to ignore thousands of years of scholarly bibilcal knowledge in order to come up with a completely unique understanding of scripture...

This is not something I came up with. A quick search on the internet will give you many results of others who see Man being created on both the Third Day and the Sixth Day. However, because they do not take Genesis 2:17 literally, they spin it in a way that does not agree with the rest of the Bible.

Usually, they make it about two races of Humans, or they make it about Evolution.

Genesis 2:4 most definately is the introduction of a recap.

I agree and I apologize for not being clear.

'Why did you leave the SDA church btw? Was it because of these doctrines you are presenting on this forum? I can imagine that pushing these kinds of theologies would very quickly see you on the outer with other church members.

Lol... no.

It had to do with being Catholic and being told the 7DA teachings of Mystery Babylon being the 'Papacy', 'Rome', 'Catholic Church', etc.

Each side points their fingers at each other and claim "They are the Harlot Church!" when in fact Mystery Babylon is not even a Church at all.

I suppose I will have to make a thread on that.

 

[Yokefellow]

For a better understanding of how a literal interpretation of Genesis 2:17 solves all of the contradictions that exist in the current teachings out there, I will create a simple timeline beginning with Genesis 2:4. Commentaries are under each verse.

Genesis 2:4
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens"

The retelling of the Creation Account begins here on the Third Day when the Three Heavens, along with Earth, are completed and ready for the first form of Life to inhabit it. Note that the word, 'day' is literal.

Genesis 2:5
"And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground."

The above verse acts as a 'Double Witness' to the fact that the timeline is indeed beginning on the Third Day. Two pieces of evidence are provided...

1. No Plants existed yet
2. No Humans existed yet

So, what happens next?

Genesis 2:7
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

God created what will be referred to as the 'First Adam'. Again, we are still on the Third Day.

Genesis 2:8
"And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed."

In perfect harmony with Genesis 1, we learn that Plants are created. Something worth noting here is that God starts off with a small Garden first before terraforming the entire planet. This makes logical sense from the standpoint of how Earth would colonize Mars for example. An experimental 'base of operations' would be the first step.

Genesis 2:9
"And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."

The above verse is yet another Double Witness to the fact that we are on the Third Day when Trees 'good for food' were created.

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

Genesis 2:17 is the main focal point of this thread and debate. Day means day and surely die means surely die. There is absolutely nothing in the context of Genesis to suggest otherwise.

Genesis 2:18
"And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."

Naturally, if there are no Animals existing on Earth, that means that the First Adam was truly alone. So, how does God solve this dilema? God tries making Animals...

Genesis 2:19
"And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."

We are still in perfect harmony with Genesis 1. Animals were created after Plants and Trees. Note that whatever the First Adam 'called' a Living Creature, that was its name.

It is now time to create Ishshah...

Genesis 2:22
"And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man."

Do you see the name 'Eve' anywhere in the above verse? Nope. That is because God did not create Eve at this point. Nowhere is the name 'Eve' mentioned until much later, after the Fall. What was her name?

Genesis 2:23
"And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

Her name was 'Woman' or 'Ishshah' in the original Hebrew. We will refer to her as Ishshah in this study because I like the name.

Genesis 2:24
"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

The above statement is quite fascinating given the fact that the couple were not born from an existing Mother and Father. That is because this is a Prophecy. The First Adam did not say those words. They were added by the narrator... i.e., by God.

Who is the Mother and Father that they are leaving? The answer lies in the Forbidden Fruit.

Genesis 2:25
"And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."

The whole point of the two trees in the Garden of Eden was to allow the couple to choose their next incarnation. The couple were naked because they had yet to choose a 'Body Tabernacle' to be 'clothed' with. They were not ashamed because they had no reproductive organs.

The two trees represented two Mothers to be 'Born Again' from... Sarah or Hagar. The First Adam and Ishshah were to choose the 'correct one'...

Tree of Life = A Body of Glory and Freedom (Sarah)
Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil = A Body of Corruption and Bondage (Hagar)

Of course, God warned them not to partake of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, however they still had free will to choose. We all know what happened next...

Genesis 3:6
"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."

The so called 'Fruit' of either Tree is what we call a Zygote. It is a Female Egg Cell fertilized by the Seed of the Serpent. The Serpent is a euphemism for the Phallus. The Seed of the Serpent is what we call Sperm. Every Male has it. It is the 'Lawgiver' between the feet.

When the First Adam and his wife Ishshah partook, they died physically on that very day.

The Fruits on each Tree represent a COVENANT! Old Testament vs. New Testament...

Galatians 4:24 (New Living Translation)
"These two women serve as an illustration of God’s two covenants. The first woman, Hagar, represents Mount Sinai where people received the law that enslaved them."

Do you understand the profound significance of the above verse? Mount Sinai represents the Phallus and the Male Generative Principle. The 'Law' represents Sperm. The Seed is the Word. Moses went to retrieve the Seed that went into the Womb of Hagar. That is all of us on the planet. We are Children of Bondage...

The second time Moses went up Mount Sinai was to retrieve the Seed that went into Sarah. This went into the Ark, the 'Heavenly Shadow' of New Jerusalem, the Mother of us all. Forty years in the Wilderness is representative of forty weeks of pregnancy.

Now, here is the part that EVERYONE gets wrong...

Genesis 3:7
"And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."

Did God lie when he said they would die? Did God say something incorrectly? No! So then why does everyone presume they did not die? It is because there are powerful people in this world that do not want you to know what actually happened!

If we simply *believe* what God said and what the verses are teaching, then there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume that the couple did not die after partaking.

Their 'eyes were opened' because they were asleep... as in dead. It is a foreshadow of the Resurrection of Damnation.

The rest of the story is about how God *REINCARNATED* the First Adam into the Second Adam, and Ishshah into Eve.

Since Eve was a brand-new creation, she received a new name as per Genesis 2:19. The couple now have reproductive organs. A brand-new invention called 'Conception' was given to Eve...

Genesis 3:15
"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

• His Seed = Sperm
• Her Seed = Ovum

In summary, the Creation Account is a simple and beautiful story about how God saves all of us in the end.

Some will have to go through Tophet, the Lake of Fire Reincarnation Portal. Remember, Tophet is Vesta. Vesta is the Moment of Conception. This is the Bible teaching this, not me. Again, the Church is lying to everyone.

For those that believe... no Lake of Fire is required. You know the rest.

 

[shunyadragon]

Adam and his wife died *physically* after partaking of the Forbidden Fruit. Moreover, it was on that very day...

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

• Day means Day, as in twenty-four hours or less.
• Surely Die means Surely Die, as in physical death.

As far as I know, I am the only person on the planet that believes the above verse.

Both Christians and Non-Christians alike will take away and add words to the verse to make it state something it does not.

Some examples include...

• Spiritual Death: Adam and his wife 'died Spiritually'.
• Begin to Age: The 'aging process' for Adam and his wife 'began ticking'.
• Day is a Thousand Years: Adam and his wife 'died within a thousand-year timeframe'.

Note that taking away and adding to the Word of God is of course a very big no-no, yet everyone does it with Genesis 2:17.

There is no need however, to alter the verse. Genesis 2:17 agrees with the entire Bible when taken literally.

In fact, it is the *only* way in which it does!

Difficult claim to make since the Book of Genesis and the whole Pentateuch were compiled after 600 BCE. Citing ancient tribal scripture with unknown authors does not help your case, No evidence of Noah's flood, Exodus , Abraham or Moses. Humanity is older than 300,000, and our Earth is over 4.5 billion years old

 

[Yokefellow]

Thanks @shunyadragon for checking out the thread.

Because this subforum is called "Scriptural Debates/Biblical Debates", I was under the impression that this subforum was for 'Scripture vs. Scripture' debates, not 'Scripture vs. Myth' or whatever.

My hope was to be able to compare verses with other verses in the Bible in order to prove or disprove whether Genesis 2:17 could be interpreted literally within the boundaries/confines of the Christian Bible.

I am not sure where the Scripture vs. Scripture Debate forum is. Does such a forum exist? The 'DIR' forums have a 'no debate' policy.

The bottom line is this...

Whether the Christian Bible is 'complete fiction', has 'some Truth', is 'poetry', is a 'Myth', etc. has nothing to do with understanding what the Book is teaching overall from a Church and hermeneutics perspective.

@AdamjEdgar posted some great verses and interpretation and is an example of the kind of debate I am hoping to have.

 

[Left Coast]

Adam and his wife died *physically* after partaking of the Forbidden Fruit. Moreover, it was on that very day...

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

• Day means Day, as in twenty-four hours or less.
• Surely Die means Surely Die, as in physical death.

As far as I know, I am the only person on the planet that believes the above verse.

Both Christians and Non-Christians alike will take away and add words to the verse to make it state something it does not.

Some examples include...

• Spiritual Death: Adam and his wife 'died Spiritually'.
• Begin to Age: The 'aging process' for Adam and his wife 'began ticking'.
• Day is a Thousand Years: Adam and his wife 'died within a thousand-year timeframe'.

Note that taking away and adding to the Word of God is of course a very big no-no, yet everyone does it with Genesis 2:17.

There is no need however, to alter the verse. Genesis 2:17 agrees with the entire Bible when taken literally.

In fact, it is the *only* way in which it does!

So your view is that Adam and Eve had children in the afterlife?

 

[Yokefellow]

So your view is that Adam and Eve had children in the afterlife?

Hi @Left Coast

Having children in the New Heavens and New Earth would be, in my opinion, a violation of the teachings of the Bible.

 

[We Never Know]

Adam and his wife died *physically* after partaking of the Forbidden Fruit. Moreover, it was on that very day...

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

• Day means Day, as in twenty-four hours or less.
• Surely Die means Surely Die, as in physical death.

As far as I know, I am the only person on the planet that believes the above verse.

Both Christians and Non-Christians alike will take away and add words to the verse to make it state something it does not.

Some examples include...

• Spiritual Death: Adam and his wife 'died Spiritually'.
• Begin to Age: The 'aging process' for Adam and his wife 'began ticking'.
• Day is a Thousand Years: Adam and his wife 'died within a thousand-year timeframe'.

Note that taking away and adding to the Word of God is of course a very big no-no, yet everyone does it with Genesis 2:17.

There is no need however, to alter the verse. Genesis 2:17 agrees with the entire Bible when taken literally.

In fact, it is the *only* way in which it does!

What was the forbidden fruit?

 

[Left Coast]

Hi @Left Coast

Having children in the New Heavens and New Earth would be, in my opinion, a violation of the teachings of the Bible.

Then Genesis 4 really makes no sense on your view.

 

[Yokefellow]

What was the forbidden fruit?

The Forbidden Fruit is the Zygote from which we were all conceived from.

It is actually referenced here...

Revelation 17:4
"And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication"

The Woman (Mystery Babylon) represents the Biological Mother of the Human Race. The Golden Cup is the Zygote of Creation. The contents are literal.

Seed of the Woman (Ovum) + Seed of the Serpent (Sperm) = Golden Cup.

When Jesus said...

John 8:44
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

... he meant it literally.

 

[Yokefellow]

Then Genesis 4 really makes no sense on your view.

Could you give a brief explanation of why that is?

 

[Left Coast]

Could you give a brief explanation of why that is?

Genesis 4 says Adam and Eve had kids.

 

[Yokefellow]

Genesis 4 says Adam and Eve had kids.

Ha yes. Indeed, the Second Adam and his wife Eve had kids.

What I am attempting to demonstrate with the literal interpretation of Gen 2:17 is that the couple you are referring to are the recreations of a previous couple who died after eating the Forbidden Fruit.

 

[We Never Know]

The Forbidden Fruit is the Zygote from which we were all conceived from.

It is actually referenced here...

Revelation 17:4
"And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication"

The Woman (Mystery Babylon) represents the Biological Mother of the Human Race. The Golden Cup is the Zygote of Creation. The contents are literal.

Seed of the Woman (Ovum) + Seed of the Serpent (Sperm) = Golden Cup.

When Jesus said...

John 8:44
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

... he meant it literally.

Huh?? There's a tree of knowledge of good and evil and it all boils down to a zygote?

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

 

[Left Coast]

Ha yes. Indeed, the Second Adam and his wife Eve had kids.

What I am attempting to demonstrate with the literal interpretation of Gen 2:17 is that the couple you are referring to are the recreations of a previous couple who died after eating the Forbidden Fruit.

Nothing about what you just said entails a literal interpretation of Genesis, lol. There is no second Adam or Eve in that text.

 

[We Never Know]

The Forbidden Fruit is the Zygote from which we were all conceived from.

It is actually referenced here...

Revelation 17:4
"And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication"

The Woman (Mystery Babylon) represents the Biological Mother of the Human Race. The Golden Cup is the Zygote of Creation. The contents are literal.

Seed of the Woman (Ovum) + Seed of the Serpent (Sperm) = Golden Cup.

When Jesus said...

John 8:44
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

... he meant it literally.

But weren't they told to go forth and multiply?

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:

 

[Yokefellow]

Huh?? There's a tree of knowledge of good and evil and it all boils down to a zygote?

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

I am a big fan of juxtaposition. I love looking at opposites in the Bible.

The Fruit of the Tree of Life would be the opposite of the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, correct?

Let us look at the Tree of Life...

Revelation 22:2
"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."

The Tree of Life as we can see has a 'Fruit' each month. That is describing a Menstrual Cycle or Monthly Period. Therefore, they represent Ovum.

If we keep going with this hypothesis, we find more and more evidence for this being the correct interpretation.

The Fruit are fertilized by the 'Water of Life' (Semen) proceeding from the Masculine Throne (Father) and Lamb (Abraham's Seed).

New Jerusalem is the 'Mother of us all'.

Those that partake of the Fruit of the Tree of Life are 'Born Again'.

Etc.