Adam and his wife died physically after eating the Forbidden Fruit. Genesis 2:17 is Literal.

[Yokefellow]

Nothing about what you just said entails a literal interpretation of Genesis, lol. There is no second Adam or Eve in that text.

So, you side with the Serpent?

Genesis 3:4
"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die"

You believe that Adam and his Wife did not die, even though God said they would?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Thanks @shunyadragon for checking out the thread.

Because this subforum is called "Scriptural Debates/Biblical Debates", I was under the impression that this subforum was for 'Scripture vs. Scripture' debates, not 'Scripture vs. Myth' or whatever.

My hope was to be able to compare verses with other verses in the Bible in order to prove or disprove whether Genesis 2:17 could be interpreted literally within the boundaries/confines of the Christian Bible.

I am not sure where the Scripture vs. Scripture Debate forum is. Does such a forum exist? The 'DIR' forums have a 'no debate' policy.

The bottom line is this...

Whether the Christian Bible is 'complete fiction', has 'some Truth', is 'poetry', is a 'Myth', etc. has nothing to do with understanding what the Book is teaching overall from a Church and hermeneutics perspective.

@AdamjEdgar posted some great verses and interpretation and is an example of the kind of debate I am hoping to have.

There is nothing about the fact that quite a bit of scripture, such as Genesis, is myth that keeps people from debating the meaning of it. In fact many will point out that the true meaning of the scripture will be lost if you treat what is obviously myth as if it were factual.

Now if you want less competition from other belief systems you could limit your debates to the Christian DIR's. Of course not all Christians, in fact most, do not take Genesis literally. But you won't have to be worried about being corrected by a member of the Baha'i faith.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So, you side with the Serpent?

Genesis 3:4
"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die"

You believe that Adam and his Wife did not die, even though God said they would?

Are we playing silly fan fantasy games? God said "on that day you will surely die". They surely did not die on that day in the myth.

 

[Yokefellow]

But weren't they told to go forth and multiply?

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:

That is referring to the Second Adam and his wife Eve *after* they were recreated on the Sixth Day and given reproductive organs as the Beasts have.

The First Adam (created on the Third Day) and Ishshah did not have reproductive organs. That was a gift for the Animal Kingdom only.

Note that Satan was, and always has been, a Beast. We inherited his reproductive organs, thus the Serpent Seed.

 

[We Never Know]

That is referring to the Second Adam and his wife Eve *after* they were recreated on the Sixth Day and given reproductive organs as the Beasts have.

The First Adam (created on the Third Day) and Ishshah did not have reproductive organs. That was a gift for the Animal Kingdom only.

Note that Satan was, and always has been, a Beast. We inherited his reproductive organs, thus the Serpent Seed.

"That is referring to the Second Adam and his wife Eve *after* they were recreated on the Sixth Day and given reproductive organs as the Beasts have"


Where does it say any of that at?

 

[Subduction Zone]

That is referring to the Second Adam and his wife Eve *after* they were recreated on the Sixth Day and given reproductive organs as the Beasts have.

The First Adam (created on the Third Day) and Ishshah did not have reproductive organs. That was a gift for the Animal Kingdom only.

Note that Satan was, and always has been, a Beast. We inherited his reproductive organs, thus the Serpent Seed.

Well that is a unique interpretation. I think that serious Bible scholars attribute the differences to two different sects of Judaism that were unified during the Babylonian Captivity. That is likely the time that Genesis was written.

 

[Subduction Zone]

"That is referring to the Second Adam and his wife Eve *after* they were recreated on the Sixth Day and given reproductive organs as the Beasts have"


Where does it say any of that at?

You need one of these:

 

[Yokefellow]

"That is referring to the Second Adam and his wife Eve *after* they were recreated on the Sixth Day and given reproductive organs as the Beasts have"


Where does it say any of that at?

That conclusion is inferred by adding up the evidence we find in the rest of Scripture.

For example, there is no human marriage, sex, bearing of children, etc. where the Tree of Life is in the New Heavens and New Earth.

Because I do not believe in contradictions, I must apply the same rules to the Garden of Eden before the Fall.

Another example is how the couple 'had no shame'.

Note that 'shame' is referring to visible private parts...

Revelation 16:15
"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."

The First Adam and Ishshah were 'not ashamed' because they had no private parts to be ashamed of.

 

[Left Coast]

So, you side with the Serpent?

Genesis 3:4
"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die"

You believe that Adam and his Wife did not die, even though God said they would?

No, Genesis says they did die. Genesis 5:1-5

 

[We Never Know]

That conclusion is inferred by adding up the evidence we find in the rest of Scripture.

For example, there is no human marriage, sex, bearing of children, etc. where the Tree of Life is in the New Heavens and New Earth.

Because I do not believe in contradictions, I must apply the same rules to the Garden of Eden before the Fall.

Another example is how the couple 'had no shame'.

Note that 'shame' is referring to visible private parts...

Revelation 16:15
"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."

The First Adam and Ishshah were 'not ashamed' because they had no private parts to be ashamed of.

"Another example is how the couple 'had no shame'.
Note that 'shame' is referring to visible private parts.."

Why would anyone be ashamed of their private parts? No animal is as far as I am aware.

So it really doesn't say any of that, its what you get from it. That's cool. Too each their own.
Take care.

 

[Yokefellow]

No, Genesis says they did die. Genesis 5:1-5

That genealogy begins on the Sixth Day with the Second Adam and Eve.

Genesis 5:2
"Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created."

The couple were recreated on the same day.

Note that 'their' name was Adam, implying that there is more than one Adam. It is a little subtle hint that was added to the verse as a shoutout to multiple Adams being created.

Jesus is of course the Last Adam.

 

[We Never Know]

No, Genesis says they did die. Genesis 5:1-5

At young age too. Adam was only 930.
Does it say at what age Eve died? Or that she even died?

 

[Left Coast]

That genealogy begins on the Sixth Day with the Second Adam and Eve.

Genesis 5:2
"Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created."

The couple were recreated on the same day.

Note that 'their' name was Adam, implying that there is more than one Adam.

No, that's not what it implies lol. It says right in the text what it's a reference to: male and female he created them.

Nor does the text of any of Genesis say a word about Adam being "recreated" after dying. So your "literal" interpretation here is anything but.

 

[Yokefellow]

Why would anyone be ashamed of their private parts?

It is literally the reason why we are all born unto sin. That is how you know.

It answers that age old question... Did the First Adam have a belly button?

No, he did not.

 

[Left Coast]

At young age too. Adam was only 930.
Does it say at what age Eve died? Or that she even died?

No. It tends to omit ladies' lives (and deaths) for the most part.

 

[Yokefellow]

No, that's not what it implies lol. It says right in the text what it's a reference to: male and female he created them.

Nor does the text of any of Genesis say a word about Adam being "recreated" after dying. So your "literal" interpretation here is anything but.

Sorry, I did not understand your original response at first...

No, Genesis says they did die. Genesis 5:1-5

Now I see the issue.

You believe that the word 'day' in Genesis 2:17 is not literal, correct?

In other words, we must take away and add unto the Word of God to make it fit the narrative...

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day [thousand years] that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

I must follow the rules and not alter the text.

 

[Left Coast]

Sorry, I did not understand your original response at first...



Now I see the issue.

You believe that the word 'day' in Genesis 2:17 is not literal, correct?

In other words, we must take away and add unto the Word of God to make it fit the narrative...

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day [thousand years] that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

I must follow the rules and not alter the text.

But you've added all kinds of stuff to the text. I just pointed it out to you. The text doesn't say anything about instantly dying and being recreated. Yet you believe all that. Plus all sorts of "symbolic" interpretations of what the serpent is, and what the seed is, and so on.

So you really have nothing against adding things to the text.

Jews and Christians have never understood that verse to mean Adam would instantly die (as it also makes no sense of the text, since Adam goes on to do things living people do).

 

[We Never Know]

Sorry, I did not understand your original response at first...



Now I see the issue.

You believe that the word 'day' in Genesis 2:17 is not literal, correct?

In other words, we must take away and add unto the Word of God to make it fit the narrative...

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day [thousand years] that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

I must follow the rules and not alter the text.

Huh? You already said in your OP that day means day as in 24 hours or less.

Now you say day means a thousand years?

Adam and his wife died *physically* after partaking of the Forbidden Fruit. Moreover, it was on that very day...

Genesis 2:17
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

• Day means Day, as in twenty-four hours or less.
• Surely Die means Surely Die, as in physical death.

As far as I know, I am the only person on the planet that believes the above verse.

Both Christians and Non-Christians alike will take away and add words to the verse to make it state something it does not.

Some examples include...

• Spiritual Death: Adam and his wife 'died Spiritually'.
• Begin to Age: The 'aging process' for Adam and his wife 'began ticking'.
• Day is a Thousand Years: Adam and his wife 'died within a thousand-year timeframe'.

Note that taking away and adding to the Word of God is of course a very big no-no, yet everyone does it with Genesis 2:17.

There is no need however, to alter the verse. Genesis 2:17 agrees with the entire Bible when taken literally.

In fact, it is the *only* way in which it does!

 

[Yokefellow]

Now you say day means a thousand years?

No. That is what @Left Coast is implying.

 

[Yokefellow]

The text doesn't say anything about instantly dying and being recreated.

The text says they will die on that day.

How do you resolve the contradiction of God's word not being Truthful?