Adam & Eve sitting in a tree....

[Thief]

Though Brahmakumari literature doesn't exactly mention what the Tree or Apple signify ,
But by applying the essence of those teachings to this story , this is how I would interpret it.
The term tree would indicate something which grows , spreads and envelops , so metaphorically by eating from the tree they allowed for the growth and spread of vices which would finally envelope the entire mankind.
Acc to Bks , sorrow made its entry when souls forgot that they were souls and started believing they were bodies , and then the attention shifted from fulfilling the soul to gratification of bodies.
I think that the Tree was the Tree of Body consciousness , and the fruit of the tree were the five vices , and the first bite was of Lust which gradually pulled along the other vices of anger, greed , attachment and Ego.
Note : Brahmakumaris believe that it wasn't just one Adam and Eve dwelling in the gardens , but two dynasties one in the Golden and other in Silver ages ruled and were in merriment for quite a long time before the descent due to body consciousness started.

specifically.....the tree of knowledge
which has many branches

what do you suppose?....a bit of knowledge forbidden

it would simply be.....the intent and purpose of the garden

once that bit of knowledge is obtained....the experiment is over
the continued use of the garden will yield nothing more
So it was dismantled and the specimens released into the environment

that would seem a harsh result for realizing the truth
having lived in ideal conditions for so long

and realizing the children would suffer as well.....

but that is not a punishment
it is simply a continuation of life

the garden was never intended to be permanent

 

[Fool]

Can you tell me where this soul/self dwells that is the explorer of the exploration; the experiencer of the experience; the learner of knowledge; and the reincarnator of the reincarnation? Is there realy such a self, or is there simply exploration, experience, learning, and reincarnation, without an agent of same?

I say that this self; this 'I', this soul, is but a self-created principle and a total illusion; that behind the many masks is not a someone, but an action, just as there is no such thing as a whirlpool, but only whirling water, without a whirler of whirling water.

Matter has always been. Mutable
Intelligence has always been. Mutable
Love has always been. Immutable

of the 3, love never changes. it remains forever the same.


Spirit = Ruach = Mind

God = Love


God + Spirit + matter > creation or formation

Love + mind + matter(body) > creation or formation


1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


John 6:36
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


Panpsychism


Panentheism

 

[Fool]

The serpent seed doctrine?
Serpent seed, dual seed or two-seedline is a controversial religious belief which explains the biblical account of the fall of man by saying that the serpent in the Garden of Eden mated with Eve, and that the offspring of their union was Cain.

and with adam too


41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

With Love comes Light, comes knowledge.

Mystery of mysteries

 

[Tabu]

specifically.....the tree of knowledge
which has many branches

what do you suppose?....a bit of knowledge forbidden

it would simply be.....the intent and purpose of the garden

once that bit of knowledge is obtained....the experiment is over
the continued use of the garden will yield nothing more
So it was dismantled and the specimens released into the environment

that would seem a harsh result for realizing the truth
having lived in ideal conditions for so long

and realizing the children would suffer as well.....

but that is not a punishment
it is simply a continuation of life

the garden was never intended to be permanent

The Garden may not be permanent,
But rejoice thee , for it is recurrent

The experiment with joy , you think is over ,
Then why thinkest thee , that sorrow is forever

That was an harsh outcome for forgetting the truth,
But realized when pain and misery groweth
longing for the ways to returneth

Innocent of sins is not less of knowledge
Indulging in vices is no privilege

True , that life continues
and with the soul followeth its consequences
Though in a new body it hardly knows
That it reaps what it sows

 

[Native]

History or allegory?
What is this story about?

IMO it can be taken literary, psychologically and cosmologically - and thus provides different layers of meanings.

Personally I take this biblical telling as a cosmological explanation of the Creation as explained here:

1) The Garden of Eden = The cosmological Center of Creation
2) The Tree of Life = A symbol of the Creation itself.
3) The Serpent = Resembles the Milky Way contours
4) Adam and Eve = Resembles the Milky Way contours on both Earth hemispheres. They also represents the basic male and female qualities of Creation itself.
5) The Flood = Represents the Milky Way River which runs OVER the Earth up in the Sky - and not ON the Earth as a divine revenge.
6) All the dualistic nonsens of evil = Later misinterpretation by patriarchal priests and holders of power in order to govern the people.

PS: Its my opinion that the biblical Story of Creation doesn´t speak of the creation of the entire Universe, but just of our Milky Way. And the same goes also for the numerous other cultural Stories of Creation.

Links:
Garden of Eden = Milky Way Center - Ancient symbols of the Milky Way Centre.
Milky Way Contours - The white Milky Way Contours
The Serpent - The Divine Serpent
Adam and Eve - Forfather Gods. Adam and Eve
Milky Way River - The Flood Myths origin from the Milky Way Rivers

 

[allfoak]

Can you tell me where this soul/self dwells that is the explorer of the exploration; the experiencer of the experience; the learner of knowledge; and the reincarnator of the reincarnation? Is there realy such a self, or is there simply exploration, experience, learning, and reincarnation, without an agent of same?

I say that this self; this 'I', this soul, is but a self-created principle and a total illusion; that behind the many masks is not a someone, but an action, just as there is no such thing as a whirlpool, but only whirling water, without a whirler of whirling water.

If there is experience and learning then there is something that is created as a result.
If there is action there must be an actor.

I understand that all souls dwell in a particular place within the mind of God.
Since there is no time and space in the mind of God then all souls can dwell together without limitation.

 

[allfoak]

The Abdul-Baha believes the story of Adam and Eve is an allegory and not intended to be understood literally...

If we take this story in its apparent meaning, according to the interpretation of the masses, it is indeed extraordinary. The intelligence cannot accept it, affirm it, or imagine it; for such arrangements, such details, such speeches and reproaches are far from being those of an intelligent man, how much less of the Divinity—that Divinity Who has organized this infinite universe in the most perfect form, and its innumerable inhabitants with absolute system, strength and perfection.

We must reflect a little: if the literal meaning of this story were attributed to a wise man, certainly all would logically deny that this arrangement, this invention, could have emanated from an intelligent being. Therefore, this story of Adam and Eve who ate from the tree, and their expulsion from Paradise, must be thought of simply as a symbol. It contains divine mysteries and universal meanings, and it is capable of marvelous explanations. Only those who are initiated into mysteries, and those who are near the Court of the All-Powerful, are aware of these secrets. Hence these verses of the Bible have numerous meanings.

We will explain one of them, and we will say: Adam signifies the heavenly spirit of Adam, and Eve His human soul. For in some passages in the Holy Books where women are mentioned, they represent the soul of man. The tree of good and evil signifies the human world; for the spiritual and divine world is purely good and absolutely luminous, but in the human world light and darkness, good and evil, exist as opposite conditions.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 122-126

Good stuff.
Thank You.

 

[allfoak]

...and yet, each unique snowflake, just like all the others, is composed of water. Out of the formlessness of water, comes a myriad of form.

Excellent!

 

[Thief]

If there is experience and learning then there is something that is created as a result.
If there is action there must be an actor.

I understand that all souls dwell in a particular place within the mind of God.
Since there is no time and space in the mind of God then all souls can dwell together without limitation.

it was good up to that last little part.....limitation

of course there is limitation

there are disciplines in this life
I suspect greater disciplines in the next

peace is a discipline

 

[Thief]

Excellent!

the periodic table is a better note of this thing called.....form

 

[allfoak]

it seemed to me.....you jumped from a notion of reincarnation to punishment of an adult by affliction of a child

if reincarnation is functional....you would never know it
even with suspicion.....no proof

I have performed detailed task without training
as if my hands knew what to do
even exceeding the instructors ability

yeah.....it seems I have skill held for centuries

but no proof

and my children do not suffer for my error

and we do not suffer for what most people believe to be an error on the part of Adam and Eve
I believe the error is held by those blaming the previous generation

each generation could take hold of their own lives (and ultimately do so)

the story of Chapter Two of Genesis can be told as is...and understood
but the dogma gets in the way

Can't prove anything to anyone, can only give them the the tools to prove it to themselves.

 

[allfoak]

and with adam too


41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

With Love comes Light, comes knowledge.

Mystery of mysteries

There is something not quite right about this.

 

[allfoak]

it was good up to that last little part.....limitation

of course there is limitation

there are disciplines in this life
I suspect greater disciplines in the next

peace is a discipline

No time, no space, no limits.
Pretty basic stuff.

 

[Thief]

No time, no space, no limits.
Pretty basic stuff.

sharing Presence..... is granted by Someone Greater

there is always a line drawn somewhere

 

[Akivah]

History or allegory?
What is this story about?

All perspectives welcome.

It is an allegory, there weren't literally two people in a garden. It represents the first people that had souls. Scientifically, there were Neanderthals without souls and Cro-Magnons with souls. I think it shows human nature at its finest. We aren't content to sit in a garden and be fed. Humans are at our best when we are striving to improve ourselves and earn our own bread.

 

[godnotgod]

Matter has always been. Mutable
Intelligence has always been. Mutable
Love has always been. Immutable

of the 3, love never changes. it remains forever the same.


Spirit = Ruach = Mind

God = Love


God + Spirit + matter > creation or formation

Love + mind + matter(body) > creation or formation


1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


John 6:36
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


Panpsychism


Panentheism

But can you answer the question: where is this soul, or self, called 'I', that is created, that is born and dies?

 

[godnotgod]

If there is experience and learning then there is something that is created as a result.
If there is action there must be an actor.

So is there a 'rainer of the rain'?

Nothing is created as a result of learning and experience except more learning and experience. What is present prior to both is consciousness.

I understand that all souls dwell in a particular place within the mind of God.
Since there is no time and space in the mind of God then all souls can dwell together without limitation.

Contradictory. 'soul', as individual entity, is necessarily defined by time and space. 'Place' in the mind of God is also defined via time and space.

 

[Fool]

But can you answer the question: where is this soul, or self, called 'I', that is created, that is born and dies?

its everywhere at all times, the Infinite I doesn't come into being, nor out.


energy cannot be created, or destroyed, it simply changes forms.

like the no-hiding theorem, it cannot be created, or destroyed, it simply transmutes.


its like the allegory of the two birds as relate the concept of paramatman and atman.

 

[Thief]

It is an allegory, there weren't literally two people in a garden. It represents the first people that had souls. Scientifically, there were Neanderthals without souls and Cro-Magnons with souls. I think it shows human nature at its finest. We aren't content to sit in a garden and be fed. Humans are at our best when we are striving to improve ourselves and earn our own bread.

Someone had to be first
to walk with God

take God out of the story and that is a different thread

 

[godnotgod]

its everywhere at all times, the Infinite I doesn't come into being, nor out.


energy cannot be created, or destroyed, it simply changes forms.

like the no-hiding theorem, it cannot be created, or destroyed, it simply transmutes.


its like the allegory of the two birds as relate the concept of paramatman and atman.

So if 'soul' is everywhere, then it is not finite, and cannot be encapsulated as an individual soul called 'I'.