Adam & Eve sitting in a tree....

[Thief]

I'm no dummy here.
I have long sense abandoned the perspective of which we speak for many of the same reasons that you find it to be erroneous.
I am not arguing with you about that.
What you don't seem to understand is that when i did hold much of the same beliefs i was pretty certain that i was onto something.
And i was, a stepping stone.
At this point in my understanding i am able to understand your perspective but i had to start somewhere.
Let people be where they are in their understanding, if you really want to change his perspective, find things that are easier to talk about.
Be sensitive to where people are at and they will be more receptive to what you have to say.

having dealt with GNG.....at length

being sensitive is futile
slap his head

 

[Thief]

Let's make a modern analogy. Adam and Eve is Star Wars. The oral tradition is a very dedicated Facebook group bonded together by a particular interpretation that was inspired by George Lucas, Joseph Campbell and Rick McCallum's writings about what their product was about.

Star Wars is "written down" (actual film) as well.

so.....you DO see spiritual notions in current day science fiction?

atta girl

 

[allfoak]

i have repeatedly told GNG to go bang his head on the wall .....until it bleeds

and then see if he can deny......his existence

maybe he tried.....to hard

Perhaps.

 

[godnotgod]

I would say we have a paradox here.
It seems the scripture which was generated from an internal experience, is also capable of generating one.

No, there is no such paradox. Such 'paradox' is only in your own mind. First off, scripture is not necessarily generated from an immediate internal experience, but may have been written years later, as in the Bible.

The problem lies in the state of mind the reader is in when reading scripture, which determines how it is seen and understood. Therein lies the problem, as it is open to many personal interpretations, most of which are probably erroneous conjecture. Therefore, scripture should be set aside and the first hand spiritual experience sought FIRST. That way, one is in the right kind of mind with which to read and understand scripture. The true nature of Reality cannot be ascertained by seeing through the distorted lens of descriptions about Reality, but via Reality itself. Only a mind at one with Reality itself can show us what is meant by scripture. Anything else is a distortion.

 

[godnotgod]

and you came to this epiphany.......flushing the toilet?

No, it is because I came to an epiphany that you are making crap up that I then flushed down the toilet. Now go, and sin no more.

 

[godnotgod]

i have repeatedly told GNG to go bang his head on the wall .....until it bleeds

and then see if he can deny......his existence

maybe he tried.....to hard

Anyone who believes he can prove his existence by such means is deluded from the beginning. Too bad you felt the need to do so, since you still cannot prove any such thing.

But the ego is a stubborn chap, and will go to great lengths to avoid being found out and exposed for the fraud that it is. It's only concern is that it lives on in perpetuity, no matter the cost. It requires constant gratification, recognition, and adulation.

 

[allfoak]

No, there is no such paradox. Such 'paradox' is only in your own mind. First off, scripture is not necessarily generated from an immediate internal experience, but may have been written years later, as in the Bible.

The problem lies in the state of mind the reader is in when reading scripture, which determines how it is seen and understood. Therein lies the problem, as it is open to many personal interpretations, most of which are probably erroneous conjecture. Therefore, scripture should be set aside and the first hand spiritual experience sought FIRST. That way, one is in the right kind of mind with which to read and understand scripture. The true nature of Reality cannot be ascertained by seeing through the distorted lens of descriptions about Reality, but via Reality itself. Only a mind at one with Reality itself can show us what is meant by scripture. Anything else is a distortion.

Apparently you have had this required spiritual experience and now understand scripture?
You can't lie to my experience.
Perhaps it is true that you had some sort of experience prior to your being able to understand scripture.
I see no reason why you would think that it should be the experience of everyone.
I can assure you it is not.

 

[Super Universe]

....made a sinner out of you and me.
History or allegory?
What is this story about?

All perspectives welcome.

Myth or history? A bit of both.

Angels assembled DNA on the planet and placed it into a protein shell. Angels intervened at times and caused surges of evolutionary change. Humanoids evolved but they were very primitive, essentially still animals.

Specific angels known as Adam's and Eve's came to the planet. Their secondary job was to teach the primitive humans agriculture, government, a sense of justice, animal husbandry, about other sciences, and give the primitive humans a true God theory.

Adam and Eve's primary job was to have children and grand children on the earth and eventually, after many generations, the great, great grand children of Adam and Eve were supposed to interbreed with the primitive humans to give the humans a more developed brain, a brain that could receive the soul. Adam and Eve did have many children who were angels, not human.

Things were not moving along as quickly as Eve wanted. She was disheartened and saw the mission as a failure. The primitive humans were not learning. They were too stubborn. The humans continued to fight amongst themselves and worship animals and supposed spirits like the wind and lightning. The humans even tried to worship Adam and Eve. God's children, humans, worshipping angels is like blasphemy to the angels.

Eve could not wait any longer and she violated the rules of the mission. She mated with a tribal leader. Adam was immediately notified of his wife's default by another angel. Eve was judged by her own kind, angels, not God, and made mortal. Adam accepted the same judgement, even though he had not violated any angelic rules, and was also made mortal.

Eve gave birth to Cain. Cain was half angel and half human. Abel, a full angel, was a son of Adam and Eve who did not like Cain because he reminded him of his mothers default. The two did not get along and one day they fought and Cain killed Abel. Cain then fled because he felt the other children of Adam and Eve, who were full angels, would seek justice.

The bible says that Cain was worried that some other tribe would see him and kill him because all of the primitive human tribes had tribal tattoo's that identified the tribe they belonged to. The tattoo's were also a warning, if you kill this person their tribe will retaliate. Adam and Even had tried to break the humans of this primitive tradition and teach them that they are all one, so, Adam and Eve and their children, including Cain, did not have the tribal tattoo's.

The bible also says that God punished women and made their childbirth painful. What really happened was that because Eve mated with a human and gave birth to Cain the primitive human brain size increased greatly. That's what caused the painful childbirth, not God issuing a punishment. If Eve had waited and followed the plan the brain sizes would have increased slowly over time instead of suddenly.

The bible also says that the fight between Cain and Abel was over offerings to God. What really happened was that the tribal humans were hunters and looked down at working the soil. Adam and Eve and their children tried to teach the humans agriculture so humanity could "be fruitful and multiply". You can get much more food from crops than you do by hunting/gathering. The humans would not work the soil and this made it into the story.

 

[godnotgod]

Apparently you have had this required spiritual experience and now understand scripture?
You can't lie to my experience.
Perhaps it is true that you had some sort of experience prior to your being able to understand scripture.
I see no reason why you would think that it should be the experience of everyone.
I can assure you it is not.

If you had been paying attention, you would have noticed that I pointed out several times that all personal views must first be set aside. Now what does that tell you?

 

[allfoak]

Myth or history? A bit of both.

Angels assembled DNA on the planet and placed it into a protein shell. Angels intervened at times and caused surges of evolutionary change. Humanoids evolved but they were very primitive, essentially still animals.

Specific angels known as Adam's and Eve's came to the planet. Their secondary job was to teach the primitive humans agriculture, government, a sense of justice, animal husbandry, about other sciences, and give the primitive humans a true God theory.

Adam and Eve's primary job was to have children and grand children on the earth and eventually, after many generations, the great, great grand children of Adam and Eve were supposed to interbreed with the primitive humans to give the humans a more developed brain, a brain that could receive the soul. Adam and Eve did have many children who were angels, not human.

Things were not moving along as quickly as Eve wanted. She was disheartened and saw the mission as a failure. The primitive humans were not learning. They were too stubborn. The humans continued to fight amongst themselves and worship animals and supposed spirits like the wind and lightning. The humans even tried to worship Adam and Eve. God's children, humans, worshipping angels is like blasphemy to the angels.

Eve could not wait any longer and she violated the rules of the mission. She mated with a tribal leader. Adam was immediately notified of his wife's default by another angel. Eve was judged by her own kind, angels, not God, and made mortal. Adam accepted the same judgement, even though he had not violated any angelic rules, and was also made mortal.

Eve gave birth to Cain. Cain was half angel and half human. Abel, a full angel, was a son of Adam and Eve who did not like Cain because he reminded him of his mothers default. The two did not get along and one day they fought and Cain killed Abel. Cain then fled because he felt the other children of Adam and Eve, who were full angels, would seek justice.

The bible says that Cain was worried that some other tribe would see him and kill him because all of the primitive human tribes had tribal tattoo's that identified the tribe they belonged to. The tattoo's were also a warning, if you kill this person their tribe will retaliate. Adam and Even had tried to break the humans of this primitive tradition and teach them that they are all one, so, Adam and Eve and their children, including Cain, did not have the tribal tattoo's.

The bible also says that God punished women and made their childbirth painful. What really happened was that because Eve mated with a human and gave birth to Cain the primitive human brain size increased greatly. That's what caused the painful childbirth, not God issuing a punishment. If Eve had waited and followed the plan the brain sizes would have increased slowly over time instead of suddenly.

The bible also says that the fight between Cain and Abel was over offerings to God. What really happened was that the tribal humans were hunters and looked down at working the soil. Adam and Eve and their children tried to teach the humans agriculture so humanity could "be fruitful and multiply". You can get much more food from crops than you do by hunting/gathering. The humans would not work the soil and this made it into the story.

Did you make this up or do you have a source?

 

[allfoak]

If you had been paying attention, you would have noticed that I pointed out several times that all personal views must first be set aside. Now what does that tell you?

That someone is not setting their personal views aside?

 

[Super Universe]

Did you make this up or do you have a source?

The source is the Urantia Book, although I condensed it quite a bit.

 

[allfoak]

The source is the Urantia Book, although I condensed it quite a bit.

I am not familiar with the book.
Makes it hard to comment on it.
It seemed a little like fantasy to me.

 

[godnotgod]

That someone is not setting their personal views aside?

If there were, then we get into infinite regression of what is an illusion to begin with.

It's just a convention of speech.

Once it is realized that personal views are illusory, then there are no such views to set aside. However, there is no 'realizer' of the realization; just realization itself.

 

[godnotgod]

Apparently you have had this required spiritual experience and now understand scripture?
You can't lie to my experience.
Perhaps it is true that you had some sort of experience prior to your being able to understand scripture.
I see no reason why you would think that it should be the experience of everyone.
I can assure you it is not.

 

[godnotgod]

Apparently you have had this required spiritual experience and now understand scripture?
You can't lie to my experience.
Perhaps it is true that you had some sort of experience prior to your being able to understand scripture.
I see no reason why you would think that it should be the experience of everyone.
I can assure you it is not.

While every snowflake is unique, they are all made of the universal substance known as 'water'. On might say that, while at all times water, they are consciously focused on being a snowflake.

 

[Super Universe]

I am not familiar with the book.
Makes it hard to comment on it.
It seemed a little like fantasy to me.

You're not familiar with the book? The UB is free to read online or download as a PDF.

Makes it hard to comment on it? It is difficult to comment on a book you have not read.

It seemed a little like fantasy to you? What changes would you recommend?

 

[Fool]

The source is the Urantia Book, although I condensed it quite a bit.

The Law of One (Ra Material)


The Law of One - PDF version

 

[allfoak]

If there were, then we get into infinite regression of what is an illusion to begin with.

It's just a convention of speech.

Once it is realized that personal views are illusory, then there are no such views to set aside. However, there is no 'realizer' of the realization; just realization itself.

I feel like i need to go for a walk barefoot to get grounded.

 

[godnotgod]

Apparently you have had this required spiritual experience and now understand scripture?

You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me.
John 5:39