Thief
Rogue Theologian
I suspect Lilith was chosen at the same time Adam was chosen
she simply did not fit the petri dish scheme of things
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Adam & Eve sitting in a tree....
- Thread starter allfoak
- Start date
she simply did not fit the petri dish scheme of things
Thief
Rogue Theologian
so reincarnation is not required
just a wishful line of thought
(got scripture support?)
allfoak
Alchemist
It is not reincarnation in the eastern sense of the concept.
This is an often over looked verse but if you read it carefully there can be no other explanation for the question that is asked other than that they believed people were sometimes punished for what they had done in past lives.
The answer that is given to the question is sometimes used to show that Jesus corrected them because what they said was not accurate.
It makes no difference if they were inaccurate in that particular circumstance, the fact that these ideas existed during Jesus' time is clearly seen in this exchange.
My opinion is that the correction that was made was for that particular individual and that Jesus also espoused the idea of coming to perfection over many lifetimes.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
a misinterpretation on your part
it was believed a parent could be punished .....affliction to the child
allfoak
Alchemist
You decide how it is to be understood?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
allfoak
Alchemist
Then how can you say i got it wrong?
allfoak
Alchemist
Please take a look at this website for a more thorough explanation.
Christian Reincarnation
Scriptural support for reincarnation
There are many Bible verses which are suggestive of reincarnation. One episode in particular from the healing miracles of Christ seems to point to reincarnation:
Christian Reincarnation: The Long Forgotten Doctrine
godnotgod
Thou art That
Can you tell me where this soul/self dwells that is the explorer of the exploration; the experiencer of the experience; the learner of knowledge; and the reincarnator of the reincarnation? Is there realy such a self, or is there simply exploration, experience, learning, and reincarnation, without an agent of same?
I say that this self; this 'I', this soul, is but a self-created principle and a total illusion; that behind the many masks is not a someone, but an action, just as there is no such thing as a whirlpool, but only whirling water, without a whirler of whirling water.
godnotgod
Thou art That
...and yet, each unique snowflake, just like all the others, is composed of water. Out of the formlessness of water, comes a myriad of form.
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wicketkeeper
Living From the Heart.
Maybe this is what really happened:-
Eve was seduced by Lucifer resulting in the birth of Cain. Not an apple in sight !
Eve was seduced by Lucifer resulting in the birth of Cain. Not an apple in sight !
arthra
Baha'i
The Abdul-Baha believes the story of Adam and Eve is an allegory and not intended to be understood literally...
If we take this story in its apparent meaning, according to the interpretation of the masses, it is indeed extraordinary. The intelligence cannot accept it, affirm it, or imagine it; for such arrangements, such details, such speeches and reproaches are far from being those of an intelligent man, how much less of the Divinity—that Divinity Who has organized this infinite universe in the most perfect form, and its innumerable inhabitants with absolute system, strength and perfection.
We must reflect a little: if the literal meaning of this story were attributed to a wise man, certainly all would logically deny that this arrangement, this invention, could have emanated from an intelligent being. Therefore, this story of Adam and Eve who ate from the tree, and their expulsion from Paradise, must be thought of simply as a symbol. It contains divine mysteries and universal meanings, and it is capable of marvelous explanations. Only those who are initiated into mysteries, and those who are near the Court of the All-Powerful, are aware of these secrets. Hence these verses of the Bible have numerous meanings.
We will explain one of them, and we will say: Adam signifies the heavenly spirit of Adam, and Eve His human soul. For in some passages in the Holy Books where women are mentioned, they represent the soul of man. The tree of good and evil signifies the human world; for the spiritual and divine world is purely good and absolutely luminous, but in the human world light and darkness, good and evil, exist as opposite conditions.
Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 122-126
Upaava
Member
Upaava
Member
Shalom Aleichem – May peace be with you,
We live in a time when truths are being restored, when people are opening their eyes and regaining an understanding of their past-- where they have come from, where they are at, and where they are going within the Creator's design for life.
What I am going to share with you now can be found as symbol and metaphor within sacred scripture. It belongs to you, and is especially needed now to understand what is happening in the world and the important choices soon to come that will decide our futures. Movies, TV programs and other sources have prepared you to understand the truth, which will sound much like a Sci-Fi story.
For some of you this is what you've been waiting for and it will ring true to you immediately, others will need more time to reflect upon it, still others will reject it out of hand. It is your right to accept or reject anything, for our Creator has given us the right to find our own way.
There is a heavenly place within the orbits of every solar system, it is the orbit of the Morning Star. Those living upon those worlds-- as difficult as this may at first appear to you-- have an imperishable body of light, and are the angelic beings that watch over and guide us to follow in their footsteps. But among these there have been those who chose to abandon their heavenly life to experience other parts of creation, eventually becoming entangled in their “lower” existences. Thus, they fell from their heightened existences, requiring a plan to provide an opportunity for them to find their ways home again.
The story of the Garden of Eden and the eating of the taboo apple is an allegory that speaks of the fall from the heights of creation to “lower” existences, from which, eventually, we can find our ways home to our original heights. We carry unconscious memories of this past which shows up in books and movies, as in The Wizard of Oz that showed a world containing good and evil, with major lifeforms seeking advancement, and Dorothy always seeking to "return home"-- as Dorothy reminded us in the final words of the film: “there's no place like home.”
The plan giving us the opportunity to return home involves the evolution of life from its earliest forms in the outlying orbits of our solar system, to our perfected forms in the orbit of the Morning Star (returned home). The orbit of the Morning Star is the crowning place of each system, the heavenly kingdom, our home of eternal life. These quotes may help you accept this idea:
Jesus: “I am the root and offspring of David the bright morning star” (Rev. 22:16).
Jesus: “my kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36).
We have been upon a long evolutionary journey with our Mother Earth, periodically advancing from orbit-to-orbit, each time bringing forth new species adapted to live in their advanced environs.
The progressive movement of each world occurs immediately after its core is birthed-ejected. Our Mother Earth is now in labor to birth her core, followed by progressing to the orbit of the Morning Star now held by the planet we know as Venus. Venus and Mercury will enter the sun, fuel the sun. The strange weather, increasing number and severity of storms, earthquakes, and volcanic activity are literally the Earth's birth pains.
Following the birth of her core (becoming a moon), the Earth and present moon will “move up”-- the Earth will assume the orbit of the Morning Star, and our moon will assume the orbit formerly held by Mercury (Mercury is an ejected core from the previous cycle).
Mars will move to the Earth's present orbit, accepting as its moon the Earth's ejected core that remained in this orbit. Following the birth of their cores, the other planets will move an orbit nearer the sun.
Thus will be fulfilled the prophecy that there will be a “new heaven and a new earth.”
Be forewarned, a choice is coming to remain or abandon the Earth, in which lures and fear will be used to try and steal us from her. Remaining immovable from the Earth is the ONLY way to complete our evolutionary process and return home.
A brother
I'm fine with limiting input to informed perspectives.
allfoak
Alchemist
The serpent seed doctrine?
Serpent seed, dual seed or two-seedline is a controversial religious belief which explains the biblical account of the fall of man by saying that the serpent in the Garden of Eden mated with Eve, and that the offspring of their union was Cain.
Robert Landbeck
Member
It is probably both history and allegory. But the story is incomplete probably because scripture is incomplete. The narrative is simple. God chose a moment of time to intervene directly into the natural world to provide for a direct relationship between man and God. That relationship and covenant was founded upon a single command, a single law that found expression within a spiritual union of one man and one woman. Man lacked the integrity to obey and sustain the command, broke covenant [or Promise] and thus Fell from grace, losing his relationship with God.
What's missing is any knowledge into exactly what that first Law and command was? Or what the first transgression was that led to the fall. Or even the nature of the spiritual union between Adam and Eve. And related essay of the subject can be found at onthenatureofmarriage
Thief
Rogue Theologian
it seemed to me.....you jumped from a notion of reincarnation to punishment of an adult by affliction of a child
if reincarnation is functional....you would never know it
even with suspicion.....no proof
I have performed detailed task without training
as if my hands knew what to do
even exceeding the instructors ability
yeah.....it seems I have skill held for centuries
but no proof
and my children do not suffer for my error
and we do not suffer for what most people believe to be an error on the part of Adam and Eve
I believe the error is held by those blaming the previous generation
each generation could take hold of their own lives (and ultimately do so)
the story of Chapter Two of Genesis can be told as is...and understood
but the dogma gets in the way
Though Brahmakumari literature doesn't exactly mention what the Tree or Apple signify ,
But by applying the essence of those teachings to this story , this is how I would interpret it.
The term tree would indicate something which grows , spreads and envelops , so metaphorically by eating from the tree they allowed for the growth and spread of vices which would finally envelope the entire mankind.
Acc to Bks , sorrow made its entry when souls forgot that they were souls and started believing they were bodies , and then the attention shifted from fulfilling the soul to gratification of bodies.
I think that the Tree was the Tree of Body consciousness , and the fruit of the tree were the five vices , and the first bite was of Lust which gradually pulled along the other vices of anger, greed , attachment and Ego.
Note : Brahmakumaris believe that it wasn't just one Adam and Eve dwelling in the gardens , but two dynasties one in the Golden and other in Silver ages ruled and were in merriment for quite a long time before the descent due to body consciousness started.