Afterlife for Non-Members of your Faith?

[Goldemar]

Yes, I agree that God created the material world so if we are born into it we are forced to live in physical bodies in the material world until we die and pass on to the spiritual world, but why would God force us to endure this hellish existence again? Do you believe God is evil?

I believe that the creator of the material world and our physical bodies is indeed evil, yes. But I believe in a higher God than the creator of the material world; this higher God is the Creator of our souls/spirits and the spiritual heaven.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

......................Furthermore, taking verses out of context doesn't help in understanding. Remember .. God is not a person ......

I can agree that God is Not a flesh-and-blood type person, but in the Christian Bible I find God is a Spirit Person.
The resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus appeared in front of the 'person' of God as per Hebrews 9:24 B
And heavenly person Jesus still thinks he has a God over him - Revelation 3:12

 

[Left Coast]

Not everybody is even aware of Islam. [ apart from portrayals in the media ]
Not everybody has even read the Qur'an.

Taking one Scriptural verse from the Bible or Qur'an in order to "prove" a point is a very weak argument.
Sound religious knowledge takes years to develop, and does not depend on a handful of cherry-picked verses.

I could do the same as you, and select a verse from here or there that appears to say what I want it to say.
You only have to look at different Christian denominations, arguing over verses in the Bible on RF to see how futile this .. some threads just go on and on.
[eg. Is Jesus God? etc. ]

There are numerous references to "the People of the book" in the Qur'an, and inter-marriage is acceptable in some circumstances .. much like Protestants and Catholics.
It is more about piety than creed..
I like attending different churches .. we are not all bigoted know-it-alls.
As far as I'm concerned, God is God !
..and we all have something to learn, regardless of creed.

..and finally, one more point.
Jews do not accentuate what happens to us after death.
They realise that they will be blessed in this life if they keep "the law".

..so I visualise the after-life as being similar to a continuation of this life,
the difference being that this worldly test will be over, and all our deeds will be laid bare.

I'll wrap up our exchange this way.

If you believe it's "cherry picking" to note that the Qur'an says we should follow Islam...I don't know what to tell you. It's the point of the entire book.

However I don't see you as a "bigoted know-it-all" at all. I'm sure you're a perfectly nice guy.

Cheers!

 

[stevecanuck]

No. It depends on the context.

Nobody will suffer in hell who doesn't deserve it .. unlike in this life, where many people suffer at the hands of others without deserving it.

It is simply untrue to say that all non-Muslims will go to hell.
The Qur'an tells us that those who are Christians, for example, have their reward.

When you cite the Qur'an, please give the verse number. I happen to know that you're referring to 2:62 in this case. It is contrary to everything we read about unbelievers in the Qur'an. It says, "Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve". If this includes, for example, Christians who believe Jesus to be the son of God, it directly contradicts all previous and future verses that claim "telling a lie concerning God" is a ticket to Hell. A clarification (some might say abrogation) of this verse appears later in 3:199, "And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book, those who believe in Allah, in the revelation [Qur'an] to you , and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to Allah: They will not sell the Signs of Allah for a miserable gain". This creates a caveat stating that only those who accept the Qur'an in addition to the Bible have no need to fear, as opposed to "the People of the Book" in general as 2:62 could be understood to mean.

There are other verses that confirm it's blasphemy to say God has a son such as:
17:111, "Praise to Allah , who has not taken a son".
5:72, "They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary".

How you can just shrug all this evidence away is mind-bending.

 

[stevecanuck]

Taking one Scriptural verse from the Bible or Qur'an in order to "prove" a point is a very weak argument.
Sound religious knowledge takes years to develop, and does not depend on a handful of cherry-picked verses.

The Qur'an tells us that those who are Christians, for example, have their reward.

Unless of course it's you who's doing it.

 

[stevecanuck]

What do you make of this from the Qur'an then?

"Whoever seeks a way other than Islam, it will never be accepted from them, and in the Hereafter they will be among the losers." 3:85

If I had to stand up in court and further prove this point, I could come up with hundreds of similar verses. I'm sure our friend would simply deny every single one of them.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I can agree that God is Not a flesh-and-blood type person, but in the Christian Bible I find God is a Spirit Person..

Mmm .. a bit more complex than that though.
Almighty God is eternal.
Our souls belong to Him .. we all die and our souls return from where they came.

If you think that our souls were created, are you saying that God has a factory somewhere, where he manufactures them?

 

[JustGeorge]

Mmm .. a bit more complex than that though.
Almighty God is eternal.
Our souls belong to Him .. we all die and our souls return from where they came.

If you think that our souls were created, are you saying that God has a factory somewhere, where he manufactures them?

I know it isn't where you were going with it, but all the sudden I pictured an ice cream factory...

Perhaps that's where my soul was made, and why I keep seeking to return to it...

(Just being lighthearted. )

 

[muhammad_isa]

I'll wrap up our exchange this way.

If you believe it's "cherry picking" to note that the Qur'an says we should follow Islam...I don't know what to tell you. It's the point of the entire book..

The point of the book is to educate us and guide us to "a straight path".
Some scholars will say that only the religion of Islam will be accepted from human beings, while others will say that "Islam" in this context, refers to obedience to God. There are references made in the Qur'an that some believers in the Bible will also go to heaven/paradise.

Cheers!

Cheers

 

[stevecanuck]

If you think that our souls were created, are you saying that God has a factory somewhere, where he manufactures them?

Do you ever stop to think how your arguments can be turned against you?

You believe that God created the universe, so I'll ask you the same question: Does God have a factory somewhere where he manufactured it?

 

[muhammad_isa]

How you can just shrug all this evidence away is mind-bending.

I don't "shrug away" any verse of the Qur'an.
If you must heckle, perhaps starting another thread is more appropriate.

 

[muhammad_isa]

You believe that God created the universe, so I'll ask you the same question: Does God have a factory somewhere where he manufactured it?

..except that physical things and spiritual things have different properties.

 

[stevecanuck]

There are references made in the Qur'an that some believers in the Bible will also go to heaven/paradise.

I very specifically rebutted this notion in post #104. Has your "cherry-picking" extended to ignoring posts that prove you wrong?

 

[Trailblazer]

Why bad?

Whether one considers it good or bad would probably depend upon one's experience of this life.
My experience has not been very good, so I would not want to come back here.
But also, I believe there is a much better world we go to when we leave this world.

 

[stevecanuck]

..except that physical things and spiritual things have different properties.

Okay, which of the two requires a divine production line to create?

 

[danieldemol]

If you believe in an afterlife, what will it be like for people who are not part of your religion? Or for people who don't share your religious/spiritual views? Or is what happens to us after death independent of our beliefs or affiliations?

I believe that all will attain eternal life who desire it and the rest will just have their conciousness lost more or less at brain death.

In my opinion.

 

[rational experiences]

I can agree that right now there is 'No after as life' because in the Bible there is No life after death but just 'sleep'.
(Both Jesus and the OT both teach ' sleep ' in death - Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14)
So, for right now it 'is only a memory after a human dies' but according to the Bible ' there will be ' a resurrection.
A coming future resurrection on Resurrection Day meaning: Jesus' coming Thousand-Year Day governing over Earth.
- Acts of the Apostles 24:15

A recording says...
A human has visions and family are in those visions. Normally its who you don't know. Or yourself seen as not yourself. As living is changing our conscious self so is or was anything heavenly.

The atmosphere changes all the time. Memory disappears memories reappear...which causes memory to be disjointed. Why it's difficult to look at past life..only what re emerged.

As the highest spirit is the eternal. So not keeping a record of a lived experience doesn't change your spiritual status.

As the being that caused everything to exist....isn't in creation.

Heavens causes experienced only as a psychic human experience to discuss the awareness.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Mmm .. a bit more complex than that though.
Almighty God is eternal.
Our souls belong to Him .. we all die and our souls return from where they came.
If you think that our souls were created, are you saying that God has a factory somewhere, where he manufactures them?

"Yes" God is eternal being from everlasting to everlasting - Psalms 90:2 ( No beginning, No end )
In other words, only God existed before anything else.
Our 'spirit ' ( it) returns to God - Ecclesiastes 12:7
So, 'it' (our spirit) returns to God in the sense that any future life (resurrection) now 'it' rests in God's safe hands.
In the Bible one's spirit is Not a person but a neuter it.
It returns to God in the sense that a foreclosed house returns to the owner.
The house does Not move or go anywhere but any future for that house now lies in the owner's hands.
Adam was a ' created soul ' according to Genesis 2:7
Adam was formed, Adam was fashioned right here from the dust of the ground ( earth ).
So, to me then God's factory ( to respectfully speak ) is right here on Earth.

 

[soulsurvivor]

If you believe in an afterlife, what will it be like for people who are not part of your religion? Or for people who don't share your religious/spiritual views? Or is what happens to us after death independent of our beliefs or affiliations?

The afterlife will be the same for everyone regardless of their faith, including atheists, communists etc : Heaven, Hell and the AfterLife

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

@F1fan I'm just trying to imagine what people want.