Alan Jackson, America, and Ignorance

[Ciscokid]

America is a country with people who error. America is governed by a country of humans who make wrong decisions. America is also a country that has helped more countries, by far, then it's ever hurt.

I don't like Bush and I believe he's made serious errors in judgement.

I'll pit the foriegn aid that America has bestowed on it's neighbors with ANY other country.

I wish to God that America would say "**** you" to the world and let people perish in their own hell. Why give a **** anymore?

 

[Booko]

********* MOD POST ********

I would like to remind everyone here that light bulb jokes, unlike some of the posts in this thread, are in accordance with the rules:

4.) While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks or inflammatory posts. We will allow faith to be debated and discussed by a member only when there is no hostile, rude, or insulting opinion of another's faith. The same applies to international conflicts; hostile, rude or insulting opinions of one of the sides to an international conflict will not be allowed. These restrictions to an open debate or discussion also apply to material linked and/or quoted from another site. Our decision is final in these matters.

 

[Sunstone]

Is it just my impression, or does anyone else think folks are behaving badly here?

As far as I can see, the OP involved an honest mischaracterization of a popular song. Rather than point out how the OP had mischaracterized the song, some folks chose instead to attack the OP's author. Just how does that behavior help anyone?

 

[Buttercup]

As far as I can see, the OP involved an honest mischaracterization of a popular song. Rather than point out how the OP had mischaracterized the song, some folks chose instead to attack the OP's author. Just how does that behavior help anyone?

Umm, a few people pointed out the mischaraterization of the song.....it did not change the author's viewpoint.

 

[Ciscokid]

Is it just my impression, or does anyone else think folks are behaving badly here?

As far as I can see, the OP involved an honest mischaracterization of a popular song. Rather than point out how the OP had mischaracterized the song, some folks chose instead to attack the OP's author. Just how does that behavior help anyone?

Gee I hope I didn't hurt anyones feelings....I'd be crushed.

 

[Djamila]

I got a different impression of the song before your input, Sunstone, but that doesn't lessen my frustration with singing about not knowing the difference between Iraq and Iran. The song is much nicer than I thought it was intended to be, but it's still a horrible sentiment to express with that particular line in my mind.

Now everyone else on this thread can talk about George Bush or terrorists or anti-Americanism until they're blue in the face. I know what I believe, and couldn't care less what people I've no respect for think of me. But I would appreciate it if some people on this thread get it into their thick heads that this topic was intended to be about Alan Jackson's lyrics and how unacceptable they are to anyone who values knowledge.

Ryan's posts surprised me, the surveys he shared. I saw one the UN did in the news lot long ago that ranked Americans second-to-last as well, I believe Afghanistan was last but I don't remember. Asian countries ranked the highest, which surprised me also.

Anyhow, the point is... they've hijacked this thread with their own twisted misinterpretations of what I said and then lambasted me as though they were mine? Well, enjoy yourselves. I just hope newcomers will go back to the first post to read what, exactly, I was talking about.

 

[Sunstone]

I got a different impression of the song before your input, Sunstone, but that doesn't lessen my frustration with singing about not knowing the difference between Iraq and Iran. The song is much nicer than I thought it was intended to be, but it's still a horrible sentiment to express with that particular line in my mind.

I'm curious whether folks in Bosnia ever understate what they know about something for reasons of modesty and humility? I think Alan Jackson was saying he didn't know much about the difference between Iran and Iraq for several reasons, but one of those reasons being simple modesty. It was just a poetic way of saying he's no expert on the Middle East. Do you think that's possible?

 

[Djamila]

I can see why you see it that way, but no, that doesn't apply here. Ignorance is never modesty in this regard. I'm sure Bosnians say every day, "I don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about", but they'd never write a song about not knowing, and certainly never dedicate such a song to an important event during the war.

We know every man and woman that committed crimes in Bosnia and Herzegovina, down to their very names. And if we didn't, we'd certainly never sing...

I'm just a singer of simple songs
I'm not a real political man
I watch OBN but I'm not sure I can tell you
The difference in Serbia and Montenegro
But I know Muhammed and I talk to God
And I remember this from when I was young
Faith hope and love are some good things God gave us
And the greatest is love

 

[Buttons*]

I have to say, this is worse than when Alyssa and I debated over peanut butter or cheese. At least we did it tastefully

 

[Sunstone]

I can see why you see it that way, but no, that doesn't apply here. Ignorance is never modesty in this regard. I'm sure Bosnians say every day, "I don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about", but they'd never write a song about not knowing, and certainly never dedicate such a song to an important event during the war.

We know every man and woman that committed crimes in Bosnia and Herzegovina, down to their very names. And if we didn't, we'd certainly never sing...

I'm just a singer of simple songs
I'm not a real political man
I watch OBN but I'm not sure I can tell you
The difference in Serbia and Montenegro
But I know Muhammed and I talk to God
And I remember this from when I was young
Faith hope and love are some good things God gave us
And the greatest is love

The reason I bring it up is because the self depreciating remark is a pretty common motif in country and western music.

This all reminds me of the time I took my car to be fixed in a small town. I asked the mechanic, who had 30 or 40 years experience, if he could fix it. He replied, "He'd take a look at it and do his best." In a large city, where one person doesn't necessarily know the other, he would have bragged that he could fix it. But in that small town there was no reason for him to tell me his qualifications: Everyone knew everyone else, and I knew his qualifications as well as he did.

Country and Western music is a little like the customs in that small town. It understates some things. Such as knowledge and expertise.

 

[Booko]

I can see why you see it that way, but no, that doesn't apply here. Ignorance is never modesty in this regard. I'm sure Bosnians say every day, "I don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about", but they'd never write a song about not knowing, and certainly never dedicate such a song to an important event during the war.

Djamila, please understand that this country has had a strong anti-intellectual bent since its earliest beginnings. Many people first came here as colonists to escape persecution in Europe. The people who provided the foundation for that persecution were the intellectuals of the time, so we have taken a rather dim view of intellectuals ever since, and admire the "plain speaking" honest and direct sort that you see in figures like John Wayne and so forth.

It's fashionable to be uninformed in this country. To know too much is to be "uppity" and a "show off."

 

[Djamila]

Here's two example of Muslim 9/11 song, Sunstone. The real version is about 18 minutes live, recorded live at Gazi Husrev-begova Mosque in Sarajevo - so I can't upload all that. I took a small clip for you. It's mainly in English, Sami sings it, so you'll be able to understand the lyrics mainly.

http://media.putfile.com/Surely-here

And here is an upbeat 9/11 song by Donna Ares, from Bosnia. The song is basically "See you in America!" with flattering descriptions of things you can see and do there.

http://media.putfile.com/U-Ameriku-In-America

 

[Djamila]

Djamila, please understand that this country has had a strong anti-intellectual bent since its earliest beginnings. Many people first came here as colonists to escape persecution in Europe. The people who provided the foundation for that persecution were the intellectuals of the time, so we have taken a rather dim view of intellectuals ever since, and admire the "plain speaking" honest and direct sort that you see in figures like John Wayne and so forth.

It's fashionable to be uninformed in this country. To know too much is to be "uppity" and a "show off."

So that, in some way, explains George Bush?

I didn't realize this, but I still don't agree with it. I agree with what you've said being true, about the persecution, etc. But my God, that's not a good habit, yes?

 

[Ciscokid]

Djamila, please understand that this country has had a strong anti-intellectual bent since its earliest beginnings. Many people first came here as colonists to escape persecution in Europe. The people who provided the foundation for that persecution were the intellectuals of the time, so we have taken a rather dim view of intellectuals ever since, and admire the "plain speaking" honest and direct sort that you see in figures like John Wayne and so forth.

It's fashionable to be uninformed in this country. To know too much is to be "uppity" and a "show off."

For a country full of "anti-intellectuals" we seem to be at the head of medicine, science, technology and military advancements the world over. Nobody likes a "know it all", but intelligent people are always in demand.

And I think you're confusing simple and plain speech for mental slothness.

 

[Booko]

The reason I bring it up is because the self depreciating remark is a pretty common motif in country and western music.

This all reminds me of the time I took my car to be fixed in a small town. I asked the mechanic, who had 30 or 40 years experience, if he could fix it. He replied, "He'd take a look at it and do his best." In a large city, where one person doesn't necessarily know the other, he would have bragged that he could fix it. But in that small town there was no reason for him to tell me his qualifications: Everyone knew everyone else, and I knew his qualifications as well as he did.

Country and Western music is a little like the customs in that small town. It understates some things. Such as knowledge and expertise.

I lived in a small city, but it's an unpretentious place, and I've had the same thing at the mechanics, and with the contractors, and that sort of thing.

And you're right -- in a city I've gotten the braggadocio.

 

[nutshell]

So that, in some way, explains George Bush?

I didn't realize this, but I still don't agree with it. I agree with what you've said being true, about the persecution, etc. But my God, that's not a good habit, yes?

Oh, I don't know, we seem to have a good blend of intellectuals and John Wayne types and somehow that has led to the U.S. being the last Superpower.

 

[Djamila]

I lived in a small city, but it's an unpretentious place, and I've had the same thing at the mechanics, and with the contractors, and that sort of thing.

And you're right -- in a city I've gotten the braggadocio.

I was reading a travel guide for American soldiers coming to Bosnia, a real one - not the joke one I posted.

One of them actually said: Be careful when asking directions. In Bosnian society it is considered extremely impolite to say, "I don't know".

 

[Djamila]

Oh, I don't know, we seem to have a good blend of intellectuals and John Wayne types and somehow that has led to the U.S. being the last Superpower.

Booko said it, not me.

 

[Booko]

So that, in some way, explains George Bush?

It explains why his "folksy" manner goes over well with the home crowd, yes, absolutely.

Gore was criticized all over the place for being "too cerebral" and a "policy wonk." (Goodness, you don't want someone good at policy making to actually make policy! That would never do!)

And I think we must be just about the only country in the world that would actually tell children, "you think too much." :areyoucra

I didn't realize this, but I still don't agree with it. I agree with what you've said being true, about the persecution, etc. But my God, that's not a good habit, yes?

It depends, Djamila. There is something to be said for being unpretentious, direct and plain-speaking also.

It depends very much on the situation.

 

[Booko]

For a country full of "anti-intellectuals" we seem to be at the head of medicine, science, technology and military advancements the world over. Nobody likes a "know it all", but intelligent people are always in demand.

And I think you're confusing simple and plain speech for mental slothness.

We appreciate intellectuals that make a lot of money, and laud them as "successful."

Intellectuals who make little money are seen as holdovers from hippie days, Ivory tower intellectuals, "long hairs", people who couldn't be bothered to get a "real" job, nattering nabobs of negativism, "high brows"...shall I go on? There's plenty more.

I could fill up entire threads with the dirisive comments hurled at our intellectuals who don't pull down the dough.

Why, I bet if I reviewed your posts here, I could probably pull out a few quotes from you.