Alcohol and Gambling are Sins???

[brandon1934]

It depends on what you mean by "sin".

The word sin from the bible as the word "chatta'ath" which means "to miss". So the question is to miss what? The ideal way of being perhaps?

Jesus put it like this..."If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." and "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

So then who is the judge of sin? God? No. Jesus? No. According to the words of Jesus.... YOU! You are your own judge. I hope you go easy on yourself.

 

[ChristineES]

It depends on what you mean by "sin".

The word sin from the bible as the word "chatta'ath" which means "to miss". So the question is to miss what? The ideal way of being perhaps?

Jesus put it like this..."If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." and "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

So then who is the judge of sin? God? No. Jesus? No. According to the words of Jesus.... YOU! You are your own judge. I hope you go easy on yourself.

Welcome to the RF!
This goes right along with my own belief that judging others is the same as judging yourself. But I believe that God will judge a person harshly if a person judges others harshly and vice versa. And God will show mercy to those who show mercy to others.

 

[Gharib]

both are forbiden and sinful because both drinking and gambling cause harm to a person. and that which when abused causes harm is forbiden in small amounts also. the process of abusing alcohol (drinking too much) is as a result of drinking small amounts in the first place.

islam is a religion that forbids both in small amounts and in large.
i hope that answers your question.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

ESalam that same logic can be applied to eating. I understand if it's a personal religious view, but why mandate this view on everyone?

 

[Gharib]

you make a good point with eating, islam forbids eating too much also. however, eating too much causes harm only to one person, and it doesn't have the same effect on a person as does excessive alcohol and excessive gabling. alcohol interferes with ones brain, therefore if one is not in the right state of mind he will cause problems, and will become a problem himself. you don't see mentally disbaled people go out into public by themselves because they are unable to make proper judgements among other things. not only that, but both gambling and alcohol cause harm not only to the person dealing with them but to other people. if a husabnd or a wife decides to go gamble money away, the whole family is affected. if one lost his house or car or life savings do you recon that has an effect on only the gambler or other people too? alcohol and gambling lead to wronging others, in some way or form, islamically speaking, wronging other people is forbiden in islam.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Esalam do you think Muslims should be able to mandate prohibition on non-Muslims who see no problem with drinking?

Also, this can again apply to eating. People who overeat are a strain on family finances.

 

[Levite]

It depends on what you mean by "sin".

The word sin from the bible as the word "chatta'ath" which means "to miss". So the question is to miss what? The ideal way of being perhaps?

Actually, there are several words employed in the Tanakh for "sin," only one of which is cheit (chet-tet-alef; a chatat-- chet-tet-alef-taf-- is usually a sin-offering, although there are a couple of instances where it is used as a metonymy or euphemism for the sin itself). Each has a different nuance of transgressive quality associated with it (a cheit, for example, could well be translated as an "error," or "failure," since though the root had to do with missing something or failing to achieve a goal, the word itself seems to be associated with sins of omission or carelessness).

In any case, there is really no sin associated with drinking alcohol in the Jewish tradition, unless one happens to be an alcoholic, in which case drinking it would violate the law against deliberately harming oneself without reason (though in practice, we do not hold alcoholics responsible for this sin, since they are deemed to be under the duress of illness). It is the sinful behavior that drunkenness can lead to that is condemned by the tradition, which for that reason advocates moderation in drinking.

But only moderation, not abstinence. Wine is considered to be a great blessing in moderation, and many key rituals involve first or finally blessing a cup of wine and drinking from it.

As for gambling, while there have been some in the tradition that have deemed it prohibited by halakhah (Jewish Law) as a kind of thievery, because one can end up with someone else's money, without giving them anything in return, and kind of against their will, others say that gamblers go in knowing the risks, and therefore, win or lose, no harm has been done. Reckless gambling or addictive gambling would fall under the same rubric as alcoholism. In either case, not much attention is paid to it, and a cursory reading over of the rabbinic responsa written about it over the centuries mostly goes to show that like it or not, rabbis have never been able to stop it, and have mostly chosen not to care much about it, preferring to spend time on more immediately problematic issues.

 

[Gharib]

islamic law does not apply to non-muslims. however, in an islamic country/state alcohol would not be produced/imported nor sold in any way. therefore this would have an effect on any non-muslims living there.

muslims are not only forbiden from drinking, but are also forbiden from buying/selling alcohol wether for themselves or for other people etc etc

people who overeat are not a strain on family finances due to those who overeat being people who don't have a problem with buying food. can you say that a poor family has trouble with someone in the family from overeating? aren't people dying around the world due to not having money to buy food even for survival? whereas those who do have food to feed the poor and needy eat twice as much as they should.

 

[Gharib]

this is what the Qur'an says regarding alcohol;

The Noble Qur'an - al-Baqarah 2:219 They ask you (O Muhammad ) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." And they ask you what they ought to spend. Say: "That which is beyond your needs." Thus Allâh makes clear to you His Laws in order that you may give thought.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Eselam is that not the Quran saying that alcohol and gambling within your means and finances is permissable?

 

[chinu]

How are alcohol and gambling sins?

Wine and some medicines both contains alcohal, But why only on the bottels of Wines and liquors it is written that "Drinking of alcohal is injurious to health" ?

After reading "Caution" on the bottle of wine or liquior that; "Drinking of alcohal is injurious to health", Still, somebody thinks that alcohal cannot injur health.

As "Cautions" of sins are more than subtle to understand, Than how can one understand sins.

Consciously not to understanding, What is sin, Is also a Sin.


If gambling is not a sin, than why not gamblers gamble their sins first.


_/\_
Chinu

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

How are alcohol and gambling sins?

I would not do both at the same time. A good way to lose a lot of money.:yes:

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I would not do both at the same time. A good way to lose a lot of money.:yes:

Depends how excessive one is

 

[Gharib]

Eselam is that not the Quran saying that alcohol and gambling within your means and finances is permissable?

no thats not what it is reffering to. the second part of the verse is speaking about giving in charity.

"2:219 They ask you (O Muhammad ) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." And they ask you what they ought to spend. Say: "That which is beyond your needs." Thus Allâh makes clear to you His Laws in order that you may give thought."


Commentary of the verse by Ibn Kathir

Allah said:
(arabic text wasn't showing, symbols appeared)
And they ask you what they ought to spend.
Say: "That which is (spare) beyond your needs.''

Al-Hakam said that Miqsam said that Ibn Abbas said that​

this

Ayah means,

whatever you can spare above the needs of your​

family.

Ibn Jarir related that Abu Hurayrah said that a man said,
"O Messenger of Allah! I have a Dinar (a
currency).''
The Prophet said:​

Spend it you on yourself.
He said, "I have another Dinar.''
He said:​

Spend it on your wife.
He said, "I have another Dinar.''
He said:​

Spend it on your offspring.​

​

​

​

​

He said, "I have another Dinar.''
He said:​

You have better knowledge (meaning how and
where to spend it in charity).
Muslim also recorded this​

​

​

​

Hadith in his Sahih.

Muslim recorded that Jabir said that Allah's Messenger
said to a man:​

Start with yourself and grant it some charity. If
anything remains, then spend it on your family. If
anything remains, then spend it on your relatives.
If anything remains, then spend it like this and
like that (i.e., on various charitable purposes).

A​

​

​

​

Hadith states:​

O son of Adam! If you spend whatever you can
spare, it would be better for you; but if you keep
it, it would be worse for you. You shall not be​

blamed for whatever is barely sufficient.
​

 

[Rainbow Mage]

How do you know the traditional interpretations couldn't be incorrect?

 

[Gharib]

are you reffering to the hadith used in the commentary or the commentary itself?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I am referring to the commentary, and the fact that when reading hadith books, many seem to take them as gospel truth, even if the specific hadith doesn't say Muhammad said. They assume that because these people narrate Muhammad's sayings their opinions are good enough.

 

[Gharib]

they are truth, scholars always give the narrators name and from which book it comes when they mention a hadith. all muslims must know, is that if anything false is associated with the prophet such as a false saying, i think they will not enter paradise. don't remember the exact hadith.

is my post an example of what you mean?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

As to the specific commentary on the Quran you gave. The verse itself seems to make the two related. It speaks of drinking and gambling and then says how much one should spend. Is it impossible Muhammad might have meant it's ok to spend within your means on these things? After all, the Quran encourages to spend out of the good things you are given.

 

[Gharib]

the Qur'an engourages to spend out of the good things you are given on the poor, the needy, the orphans etc. you have a verse that is clear, it says do not drink nor gable because their harm is greater than their benefit to man. then it says spend (give, donate) of the extra wealth that you have. in my home country for example there are beggers who come around taking what you would give them, so Allah makes it clear for the people, if you have more than what you need, then give in charity.