All Dogs Go to Heaven

[Ponder This]

Thanks for you insight. Does this have foundations in a specific religion or are these your own personal views?

It does have it's foundations in some religions... but obviously not all of them acknowledge it.
The religions that acknowledge reincarnation often acknowledge that souls can reincarnate into animals as well as humans. The question of Heaven and Hell as an afterlife for puppies is specifically related to religions with that as a cornerstone of the reckoning of the afterlife. Some don't acknowledge that animals have souls.

Since I come from a family of spiritual mediums, I know that it is common for mediums to see animal spirits (not only human spirits). I have also personal experience that influences my belief on this matter. So I am not speaking solely from the dogma of a particular religion.

So to answer your question: yes, it has it's foundations in specific religions and yes, it is part of my personal view that living creatures have souls (not just humans), but as to whether or not these souls are hanging out in Heaven or Hell, that would be particular to religions that believe in those concepts of the afterlife. There has to be a coherent concept of what those are before I would be prepared to make a clear statement regarding my personal belief on that matter. Until such time, I choose to abstain from a declaration of my personal belief in that regard. But, for example, I have no reason to believe that a person would be denied Heaven simply because he was born mentally impaired.

I do not wish to propagate false notions about what to expect after you die. Others may be quite willing to say all sorts of things about what will await people when they go to Heaven: they would have you believe that it is a five star hotel inhabited by angels that exist solely to serve your every whim and desire. They may, indeed, be willing to describe it as anything and everything you desire so as to entice you to convert to their faith or to do many others things in the name of their religion.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Those of you that thought that I wanted entertain a debate about the Disney movie are probably going to be disappointed. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble.


I've referenced a couple of times on this forum the principle reason for my departure from Catholicism and ultimately Christianity. But for the purpose of this thread, I'll reiterate it here:

When I was a wee lad, I attended CCD. During one of the classes, we were discussing what happens to people when they die. When the nun discussed the concept of Heaven, she only mentioned people. I had a nagging question on my mind so I raised my hand. When called upon, I asked, "Do animals go to Heaven, too?"

Mind you I've felt a connection with animals and nature from a very young age. Imagine my dismay with I was met with the response, "No, only people go to heaven. Animals do not have souls." Ultimately I argued my viewpoint, but was promptly shut down.

This drove a wedge between me and Catholicism, and thus began my journey seeking paths that accepted what I knew deep down to be true.


So here is my question:

What does your religion teach you about those beings other than humans and the afterlife? Do you accept these teachings, or feel they're not quite right but you follow them anyway because it is a part of your belief structure?

People ARE animals. And as far as we can tell, there is no evidence that animals experience any type of afterlife. Would be great if that were the case, but we have to be realistic.

 

[SalixIncendium]

People ARE animals. And as far as we can tell, there is no evidence that animals experience any type of afterlife. Would be great if that were the case, but we have to be realistic.

Realistic?

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

How many monkeys does it take to fill a barrel?

The boring answer appears to be 24 maximum.Barrel of Monkeys - Wikipedia Damn, sometimes it is better to let your imagination run riot!

 

[Ingledsva]

I preach the gospel and try to keep my nose clean. What is it we are told is required?!

Micah 6: 8 He has told you, O earthling man, what is good. And what is Jehovah asking back from you but to exercise justice and to love kindness and to be modest in walking with your God?​

And, the Trinitarian churches are more or less out of the question. The 7th day church wasn't that bad, but I didn't get from it what I needed.

Know what I find most interesting in Micah 6? The verse before the one you listed - is another verse showing that the Hebrew did originally perform child sacrifice, and the change from that.

Mic 6:6 Wherewith shall I come before YHVH, and bow myself before the high Elohiym? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?

Mic 6:7 Will YHVH be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body a sin-offering/sacrifice for my soul?

Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth YHVH require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy Elohiym?

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[Katzpur]

Those of you that thought that I wanted entertain a debate about the Disney movie are probably going to be disappointed. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble.

Not expecting a debate about the Disney movie, rather, I kind of figured the thread might be about an afterlife for animals. So, I'm glad I was right.

I've referenced a couple of times on this forum the principle reason for my departure from Catholicism and ultimately Christianity. But for the purpose of this thread, I'll reiterate it here:

When I was a wee lad, I attended CCD. During one of the classes, we were discussing what happens to people when they die. When the nun discussed the concept of Heaven, she only mentioned people. I had a nagging question on my mind so I raised my hand. When called upon, I asked, "Do animals go to Heaven, too?"

(Quick note: If you were ever a "wee lad," it must have been somewhere in the UK. Am I right?)

Mind you I've felt a connection with animals and nature from a very young age. Imagine my dismay with I was met with the response, "No, only people go to heaven. Animals do not have souls." Ultimately I argued my viewpoint, but was promptly shut down.

This drove a wedge between me and Catholicism, and thus began my journey seeking paths that accepted what I knew deep down to be true.


So here is my question:

What does your religion teach you about those beings other than humans and the afterlife? Do you accept these teachings, or feel they're not quite right but you follow them anyway because it is a part of your belief structure?

I love animals. I believe I was born with this love and it's irresistible. I am drawn to them so powerfully and they are so much of what makes life meaningful to me, that I had the same question you did, which probably arose the first time I lost a beloved pet. I'm a member of a religion that teaches that teaches that God created all life, that every living thing has a spirit and will be resurrected someday. This means that animals do go to Heaven. I cannot conceive of a Heaven without them, and I am I grateful that I didn't have to decide between what I was taught as a child and what my heart told me. They were one and the same.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

I do hope you all realise the Simpsons had this thing covered ages ago right?

and

 

[SalixIncendium]

(Quick note: If you were ever a "wee lad," it must have been somewhere in the UK. Am I right?)

Nope. I was a wee lad from Chicago, IL.

 

[Katzpur]

Nope. I was a wee lad from Chicago, IL.

I didn't know they had "wee lads" there. Thought it was just little boys. Thanks for correcting me, and may we meet someday in Heaven, along with our dogs.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I do hope you all realise the Simpsons had this thing covered ages ago right?

*shudders* THAT stirs up some ugly memories (actually we were more in a classroom setting rather than a semicircle), and we weren't cartoon characters...but everything else is pretty spot-on.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I didn't know they had "wee lads" there. Thought it was just little boys. Thanks for correcting me, and may we meet someday in Heaven, along with our dogs.

Actually, they do just have little boys in Chicago. The "wee lad" reference was likely just a symptom of spending too much time on international message boards and playing too many video games.

 

[Mister Silver]

Christianity believing that animals do not go to heaven just further reminds me why I prefer being an atheist. It is as though Christianity was created for the mere reason of removing any kind of living from life, especially since it places so much emphasis on what one cannot do in life just to reach the supposed afterlife.

The point of living is to live, not to forsake living for a pretend goal.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

*shudders* THAT stirs up some ugly memories (actually we were more in a classroom setting rather than a semicircle), and we weren't cartoon characters...but everything else is pretty spot-on.

Sure, I suspect that scene was based on the writer's own experience as a child. Sometimes satire gets too close to the truth and makes us uncomfortable. I do love the Simpsons though, a work of genius by and large!

 

[DavidFirth]

Honest question: If a lizard and a donkey can figure out how to have a conversation with you, would that change your mind?


What's to stop some regular human guy doing it?


That sounds like a person who's really depressed and has given up any hope of having a happy thought. That author needs Xanax, stat.


Mine are there. Sorry yours aren't.


Indeed.

Anyway, I know many nonhuman persons have minds of their own. It may be a "Cliff's Notes" version, but a mind is a mind. I feel it is inappropriate to say some vegetative human with brain death is ensouled but not a fully functional nonhuman. I feel it is inappropriate to say a zygote is ensouled but not a sponge (the living kind, not the fake kind on your sink). I feel "soul" can be equated to "sense of self and/or empathy". At any rate, my opinions about the matter are strictly to avoid hypocrisy.

Nothing would change my mind. As I said, I am absolutely sure about it.

The Spirit reveals truth. The Spirit communicates with believers and reveals truth to them. Jesus Christ is truth. Everyone has been deceived by Satan, only the Spirit knows truth.

 

[Repox]

Humans are indeed just another species. This "evidence," however, does nothing to support your claim that humans aren't divine.

So since you have now presented your claim as a Universal Truth, thus negating the truths of several members here, you may now go ahead and plead your case.

I never said I have universal truth. In the case of human divinity, there is no evidence, just assumptions by those who have accepted religious ideas of human goodness. Analyze history and make your case. How many millions of people have been killed, slaughtered, tortured, and in many other ways mistreated? Where is the evidence for human divinity?

 

[SalixIncendium]

I have never said I have universal truth.

No? I'll just leave this here...

It is a universal truth.

 

[Repox]

No? I'll just leave this here...

Taking ideas out of context wins you nothing.

 

[Grandliseur]

Know what I find most interesting in Micah 6? The verse before the one you listed - is another verse showing that the Hebrew did originally perform child sacrifice, and the change from that.

Mic 6:6 Wherewith shall I come before YHVH, and bow myself before the high Elohiym? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?

Mic 6:7 Will YHVH be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body a sin-offering/sacrifice for my soul?

Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth YHVH require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy Elohiym?

*

Well, your interpretation of 'shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body a sin-offering/sacrifice for my soul?" is different than mine.
What Micah is asking in my mind does not indicate the cultural sacrifice of human life. Instead, it poses the question. Micah could not think of anything more valuable than his firstborn to offer God, and he asks if even giving that sacrifice would be what God is requiring. In the next verse we see that such human sacrifice is not what God desires. God desires humble things, things that are not physical, animals, or gold; rather, God demands of us to live in love and righteousness.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Taking ideas out of context wins you nothing.

If you'd like, I'll repost the entire conversation where you contradicted yourself...

It is a tough fact of life, humans are not divine or destined to go to heaven. What makes humans different are symbolic communication abilities. Just like other species, we life die and turn to dust. There have been times when God took any interest in humans. One of those times was when He chose people for a holy order on earth, but it hasn't worked out. Because there is no real proof of heaven or a hereafter, it is all speculation. For clerics, it is an imaginary world for their religious business.

Please tell me you are presenting this as a personal truth and not a Universal Truth, because I would hope you wouldn't be so arrogant as to impose your truths onto those of others.

It is a universal truth. It is not arrogant to propose an idea based on evidence. There is conclusive evidence for humans being just another species. Even scientists use other species for medical experiments, therefore establishing the animal nature of humans.

Humans are indeed just another species. This "evidence," however, does nothing to support your claim that humans aren't divine.

So since you have now presented your claim as a Universal Truth, thus negating the truths of several members here, you may now go ahead and plead your case.

I never said I have universal truth. In the case of human divinity, there is no evidence, just assumptions by those who have accepted religious ideas of human goodness. Analyze history and make your case. How many millions of people have been killed, slaughtered, tortured, and in many other ways mistreated? Where is the evidence for human divinity?

Better?

And since you chose to edit your post after I posted my reply, I'll address that portion as well...

I didn't post any claims about human divinity under the guise of Universal Truth. Therefore, there is no burden on me to present empirical evidence, as I was not claiming anything to be your truth. You, however, posted a claim that humans are not divine and when asked for elaboration, presented it as a Universal Truth. See the difference?

 

[Ingledsva]

Well, your interpretation of 'shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body a sin-offering/sacrifice for my soul?" is different than mine.
What Micah is asking in my mind does not indicate the cultural sacrifice of human life. Instead, it poses the question. Micah could not think of anything more valuable than his firstborn to offer God, and he asks if even giving that sacrifice would be what God is requiring. In the next verse we see that such human sacrifice is not what God desires. God desires humble things, things that are not physical, animals, or gold; rather, God demands of us to live in love and righteousness.

Actually there are multiple places in Tanakh which tell us this, as well as books and articles about their First-born Sacrifice.

I will add that those several verses discuss the different types of sacrifice, including The firstborn sacrifice. They don't change at the human sacrifice.

Mic 6:6 Wherewith shall I come before YHVH, and bow myself before the high Elohiym? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?

Mic 6:7 Will YHVH be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body a sin-offering/sacrifice for my soul?

These were all offerings.

Most Tanakh verses concerning such show us the changeover to animal only.

Such as the Abraham and Isaac story - where the child-sacrifice is traded for an animal.

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