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"All life matters." : combatting Truths with truths

Marisa

Well-Known Member
Let's address both!
Works for me.

That cuts both ways.
If people are telling you that "all lives matter", it would pay to listen.
When have I said I wasn't?

Btw, white individuals can have a unique insight into problems too.
I doubt we'll ever fully understand what it's like to be anything but white, sadly.

Black folk don't have the singular TRUTH either.
Never said they did. But they are unarguably uniquely positioned to know what it's like to be black.

I've known some who suffered from an obsession with victimhood.
That is a problem in today's society. It seems to me that those crying "victim" aren't, but those crying "marginalized" usually are.

Marla, a former co-worker at Black & Decker, would lament how black folk (such as her) suffered discrimination at the company.
I car pooled with her, but seldom actually gave her a ride because she was late over 90% of the time.
I'd usually see her walk in an hour after I arrived.
I'm just positive you aren't saying that all black people are Marla. ;) But for an interesting twist, my FIL was employed by a company owned by B&D. They moved him and his job to Mexico, then shortly thereafter fired him for being less than 10 years from retirement. My FIL blames all Hispanics, rather than the company against which he won a wrongful termination suit. :rolleyes:

I contrast here with Bob, an aikido buddy (also black), who was ambitious....Baltimore City teacher with an expanding stock of rental housing he owned,
He didn't complain....he just chased down success, grabbed it by is throat, ripped its.........dang, this is getting graphic!
I'm glad he was successful. Too many aren't. o_O

Needless to say, neither anecdotes represent a general standard.
 

Marisa

Well-Known Member
There are some interesting thoughts on this.

stop-talking-about-racism.jpg


You have to talk about it some. But the way it is talked about needs to change. It must be realized but then it must be corrected without dwelling on it. If I were to take a black child and tell him/her every day that she is being discriminated against, even if they are not in most cases, they will believe they are. We need to be inclusive rather than exclusive. "Black lives matter. All lives matter." That should be the slogan. The specific issue of police brutality and murder is a huge issue that spans racial boundaries. The racism of cops and our judicial system is a huge problem. Thankfully over the past few decades it has gotten significantly better. This trend needs to continue and speed up to the point where we have equality or at least reasonable comparative equality. Another highly important thing is actually a point that was brought up by the anti-christ himself Bill O'Riley. Many African Americans live in poverty and lower class neighborhoods. They will be more likely to be involved in crime and more likely to be involved with the police and possible dangerous situations where the police may harm them. Its possible that the bulk of this isn't a direct result from "racist cops" but from a mixture of racist cops and the reality of the economic inequality of the racial dynamic in America. Finding out where the problem originates from and finding the best possible solutions to them is far better than knee jerk reactions and instant blame. Best instant fix for cops that have done questionable things is to have it required that all cops have a body cam and dash cam that is capable of capturing the audio and visual of their entire time on duty. If cops fail to comply then they should be punished through suspensions and those that are caught in the act need to be sacked on the spot for hate crimes. They need to make sure that there are cameras in the police stations as well. The ones with the most power need to be the ones who are held at the highest standards. That can be overhauled and fixed in less than a month. It doesn't specifically address racism but cop behavior overall. This is an "all lives matter" approach.

To better the economic disparity would be better infrastructure in America. More funding for schools, especially inner city schools and schools that are far behind educationally. Free lunch and breakfast should always be an option. Single payer healthcare systems will remove the stigma of medicaid and give equal treatment to all regardless of race, income or public standing. Cities need to focus on better public transportation. This will remove the stigma of public transportation that exists everywhere but NYC. It is also better for our planet and economy as well. More reasonable tuition rates for college. It should not be easy to get a degree and there are backlashes to having "free" college. But it has never been such a huge issue as it is today. Financial problems should not stop someone from getting into college. Raising the minimum wage will bring hordes of families out of poverty. It will help minority families more as proportionally they tend to have higher rates of poverty.

I could go on and on and on. But these are real steps that can be taken that will indirectly but more effectively help the racial inequalities of the current state of the Union. Its done without attacking people or making people victims. It can all be done without addressing race at all. We worked hard to stop segregation. Lets not re-segregate ourselves.
Sadly, I don't think Morgan's advice can be used until we "get" a few things about race. Namely that white privilege IS a thing, and that grasping this doesn't make all whites anything but aware.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I wish we get get that idea over to the cops, that all lives matter. An american is 55 times more likely to be killed by the police than a terrorist.

Killing someone is a bad thing. I think we should all be united is trying to understand why the police find it so often necessary to use lethal force. Maybe the police should stand trial for every death to prove the killing was justified.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
There are some interesting thoughts on this.

stop-talking-about-racism.jpg


You have to talk about it some. But the way it is talked about needs to change. It must be realized but then it must be corrected without dwelling on it. If I were to take a black child and tell him/her every day that she is being discriminated against, even if they are not in most cases, they will believe they are. We need to be inclusive rather than exclusive. "Black lives matter. All lives matter." That should be the slogan. The specific issue of police brutality and murder is a huge issue that spans racial boundaries. The racism of cops and our judicial system is a huge problem. Thankfully over the past few decades it has gotten significantly better. This trend needs to continue and speed up to the point where we have equality or at least reasonable comparative equality. Another highly important thing is actually a point that was brought up by the anti-christ himself Bill O'Riley. Many African Americans live in poverty and lower class neighborhoods. They will be more likely to be involved in crime and more likely to be involved with the police and possible dangerous situations where the police may harm them. Its possible that the bulk of this isn't a direct result from "racist cops" but from a mixture of racist cops and the reality of the economic inequality of the racial dynamic in America. Finding out where the problem originates from and finding the best possible solutions to them is far better than knee jerk reactions and instant blame. Best instant fix for cops that have done questionable things is to have it required that all cops have a body cam and dash cam that is capable of capturing the audio and visual of their entire time on duty. If cops fail to comply then they should be punished through suspensions and those that are caught in the act need to be sacked on the spot for hate crimes. They need to make sure that there are cameras in the police stations as well. The ones with the most power need to be the ones who are held at the highest standards. That can be overhauled and fixed in less than a month. It doesn't specifically address racism but cop behavior overall. This is an "all lives matter" approach.

To better the economic disparity would be better infrastructure in America. More funding for schools, especially inner city schools and schools that are far behind educationally. Free lunch and breakfast should always be an option. Single payer healthcare systems will remove the stigma of medicaid and give equal treatment to all regardless of race, income or public standing. Cities need to focus on better public transportation. This will remove the stigma of public transportation that exists everywhere but NYC. It is also better for our planet and economy as well. More reasonable tuition rates for college. It should not be easy to get a degree and there are backlashes to having "free" college. But it has never been such a huge issue as it is today. Financial problems should not stop someone from getting into college. Raising the minimum wage will bring hordes of families out of poverty. It will help minority families more as proportionally they tend to have higher rates of poverty.

I could go on and on and on. But these are real steps that can be taken that will indirectly but more effectively help the racial inequalities of the current state of the Union. Its done without attacking people or making people victims. It can all be done without addressing race at all. We worked hard to stop segregation. Lets not re-segregate ourselves.
I wonder if he'd settle for being called a damn good actor?
Sadly, I don't think Morgan's advice can be used until we "get" a few things about race. Namely that white privilege IS a thing, and that grasping this doesn't make all whites anything but aware.
Unfortunately, we are probably a long ways off from reaching the point where this idea that privilege equals guilt isn't widely acknowledged or considered. Probably the same for the "rad-types" of reformists realizing not everyone targeted by their lamentations is guilty, just the same as those who think privilege equals guilt realizing the rad-types do not make up the majority of reformist groups.
 

Monk Of Reason

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Sadly, I don't think Morgan's advice can be used until we "get" a few things about race. Namely that white privilege IS a thing, and that grasping this doesn't make all whites anything but aware.
Who is it that is denying the privileged? Anyone in this thread? If you point them out I will gladly join you in educating them.

Now do you have anything to say about my post?
 

Marisa

Well-Known Member
I wish we get get that idea over to the cops, that all lives matter. An american is 55 times more likely to be killed by the police than a terrorist.

Killing someone is a bad thing. I think we should all be united is trying to understand why the police find it so often necessary to use lethal force. Maybe the police should stand trial for every death to prove the killing was justified.
Well see I don't go that far with it. We require the police to put their lives on the line for us. Our own legal standard is "innocent until proven guilty", why would we generate the opposite standard for police? There has to be a middle ground somewhere.
 

Marisa

Well-Known Member
Who is it that is denying the privileged? Anyone in this thread? If you point them out I will gladly join you in educating them.

Now do you have anything to say about my post?
Wow. Well, I was at work when you posted and yeah, I really only commented to the meme. But I will read everything you posted and make sure that I give it 100% of my full attention, and comment if I feel it necessary.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member

Monk Of Reason

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
One thing I would like to add on in my comment earlier is that a white man in America has a 1 in 200,000 chance of being **** by police. In Germany last year (2014) you had a one in the whole country being shot by police. See where I'm coming from? The police brutality is what needs to be addressed. The fact that African Americans are killed at a 70% higher rate than Caucasians is a concern. The only way that statistic could be true in Germany is if the person who was shot in Germany was 7/10th's black.

So an American has had 500 deaths and counting this year. Germany has 1. The population of America is roughly 4x larger than Germany's population (and no that isn't a fat put but it should be). That means that Americans are roughly 125x more likely to be shot by police than Germans. The 1.7x more likely statistic seems less shocking. That isn't to say it not significant but that the grand scheme of the problem is so much larger and that by addressing it we will better address the racial inequality.

If you want to see the real racism of our judicial system don't look at cops murdering people. Look at the conviction rates for similar crimes in the court of law. Obama recently stated that he wants to overhaul the prison system in America. The prison system is broken beyond belief and does nothing but make the owners of these private prisons filthy rich.
 
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Monk Of Reason

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
I'm sorry, I do not respond well to aggressiveness. Perhaps I misinterpreted your post as such, but that is how it seemed to me.
I am a sarcastic person. In a failed attempt at humor I am often misunderstood on the internet.

There are several members here who deny and denounce privilege. If you start a thread, they will come.

I've no doubt in general but I meant within the confines of this discussion.
 

Marisa

Well-Known Member
I am a sarcastic person. In a failed attempt at humor I am often misunderstood on the internet.
Sarcasm I can do! :)

ETA: I agree with you and Shadow. I've seen privilege denied in this forum, though I haven't seen much of it in this particular thread. But, as they say, the night is young. :D
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
When have I said I wasn't?
Are you saying that I said that you said that?
I doubt we'll ever fully understand what it's like to be anything but white, sadly.
We can understand more than our experience if we are open to it.
It pays to have engaging friends of very different backgrounds.
Failing that, there is always literature.
Never said they did. But they are unarguably uniquely positioned to know what it's like to be black.
I never said that you said that they did.
(This is fun!)
That is a problem in today's society. It seems to me that those crying "victim" aren't, but those crying "marginalized" usually are.
One cannot judge victimhood or marginalization solely by group membership.
(Note that I'm not saying that you're saying that I'm...uh.....something, something, something.)
I'm just positive you aren't saying that all black people are Marla. ;) But for an interesting twist, my FIL was employed by a company owned by B&D. They moved him and his job to Mexico, then shortly thereafter fired him for being less than 10 years from retirement. My FIL blames all Hispanics, rather than the company against which he won a wrongful termination suit. :rolleyes:
Bummer.
I'm glad he was successful. Too many aren't. o_O
Needless to say, neither anecdotes represent a general standard.
No, but anecdotes shed light on why a general case is what it is.
Moreover, these are not isolated cases.

I've noticed a pattern here, ie, that generally my anecdotes are insignificant anecdotes,
but people on the other side of an issue always have anecdotes which are significant.
Now, I'm not saying that you're saying that I"m saying that you're saying this.
 

Marisa

Well-Known Member
Are you saying that I said that you said that?

We can understand more than our experience if we are open to it.
It pays to have engaging friends of very different backgrounds.
Failing that, there is always literature.

I never said that you said that they did.
(This is fun!)
Ain't it?

One cannot judge victimhood or marginalization solely by group membership.
(Note that I'm not saying that you're saying that I'm...uh.....something, something, something.)
No, and I don't mean to suggest that we should. But allow the marginalized to make their case. Allow the self described victims to, as well.


No, but anecdotes shed light on why a general case is what it is.
Moreover, these are not isolated cases.

I've noticed a pattern here, ie, that generally my anecdotes are insignificant anecdotes,
but people on the other side of an issue always have anecdotes which are significant.
Now, I'm not saying that you're saying that I"m saying that you're saying this.
Ah, but if you've been paying attention you've noticed I never lead with an anecdote. But when you lay the bar on the ground, almost no effort is required to meet it. :rolleyes:
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Regarding anecdotes, they serve a useful purpose.
With experience in an area, one can develop a BS alarm for ostensibly learned folk making bogus claims.
 

Marisa

Well-Known Member
Regarding anecdotes, they serve a useful purpose.
With experience in an area, one can develop a BS alarm for ostensibly learned folk making bogus claims.
Oh I try never to profess myself to be any great intellect. But I do notice that many times bogosity is in the eye of the beholder.

ETA: the reason I don't care for anecdotes in these types of discussions is that they tend to be a bit like buttholes, and for the same reason. Everybody's got one and they all cancel each other out. LOL
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Oh I try never to profess myself to be any great intellect. But I do notice that many times bogosity is in the eye of the beholder.

ETA: the reason I don't care for anecdotes in these types of discussions is that they tend to be a bit like buttholes, and for the same reason. Everybody's got one and they all cancel each other out. LOL
Sometimes they're illustrative.
And sometimes they defeat an overly broad or simply erroneous claim.
I presume that's why you post them too.
 
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