"All life matters." : combatting Truths with truths

[Marisa]

Sometimes they're illustrative.
And sometimes they defeat an overly broad or simply erroneous claim.
I presume that's why you post them too.

I only occasionally post them when someone else does, and only if I have one that counters the one posted. I do not lead with them, or add them to my argument as a general rule. I thought the one about my FIL fit here because his anger is misplaced, he was a bigot before he lost his job, but it still surprises me that he blames Hispanics instead of the company which fired him so wrongfully he was able to win a lawsuit in Mexico against them.

 

[Revoltingest]

I only occasionally post them when someone else does, and only if I have one that counters the one posted. I do not lead with them, or add them to my argument as a general rule. I thought the one about my FIL fit here because his anger is misplaced, he was a bigot before he lost his job, but it still surprises me that he blames Hispanics instead of the company which fired him so wrongfully he was able to win a lawsuit in Mexico against them.

Perhaps the company was wise to fire him, eh?

 

[Marisa]

Perhaps the company was wise to fire him, eh?

I don't really know. I know he did not stay in the Army after his tour in Vietnam because his wife didn't want to be moving around all the time, and then he moved around all the time anyway. I don't know whether he was a good employee or not. All I do know is that is wasn't the Mexicans that moved his job to Mexico and then fired him.

 

[Paranoid Android]

True dat , True dat.

 

[averageJOE]

Well, at least it's a wee bit better than the "Hands up, Don't Shoot" chant. But not by much.

 

[Penumbra]

Saying "All Lives Matter" in this context is a good way to go back to doing pretty much nothing about any particular issue.

We wouldn't want to bring focused attention to any particular issue so that people can focus on it and take a few steps towards actually improving it. Instead, we need to be reactionary to any group that tries to be specific, and instead just keep returning to this vague, broad static nothingness.

 

[averageJOE]

http://news.yahoo.com/hundreds-mourn-slain-9-old-ferguson-girl-190420133.html

Did her "black life" matter?

 

[esmith]

I think I will go with MS Hubbard's opinion of the Black Lives Matter group. It appears that a very vocal
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...hubbards-attack-on-black-lives-matter/402128/

Then we have the questionable facts put forth by this group.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/08/race-and-criminal-justice

Isn't it possible that police are more apt to put there own safety first when it comes to a possible conflict? Is it possible that the "dangerous national rhetoric" against police? (pasted from http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/31/us/texas-deputy-killed-gas-station/ ). Then we have the problem of the police putting there careers before policing certain neighbors due to the actions ofcertain public officials in certain cities (plural). Yes there are some valid points that those in the Black Lives Matter group are trying to bring to the nations attention; however, the extreme activist within that group and "others" (http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015...ynching-and-hanging-of-white-people-and-cops/) are getting all of the media attention.

 

[Revoltingest]

In the news....
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/...ter-chant-called-disgusting-by-police-leader/
It seems a really poor tactic to make cops feel even more threatened & offended by those who really want better treatment.

 

[columbus]

It seems a really poor tactic to make cops feel even more threatened & offended by those who really want better treatment.

Marchers chanted in unison, “Pigs in a blanket, fry ’em like bacon.”

The Black Lives Matter people remind me of the Christians who assert that gay people wanting to get married and raise kids are destroying the family and a danger to children.
Despite solid evidence that the danger really comes from divorce and irresponsible procreation, they keep talking about gay people. Similarly, the Black Lives Matter people are all up in arms against the cops who are trying to protect them and ignoring the real problems that black people face.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

Marchers chanted in unison, “Pigs in a blanket, fry ’em like bacon.”

The Black Lives Matter people remind me of the Christians who assert that gay people wanting to get married and raise kids are destroying the family and a danger to children.
Despite solid evidence that the danger really comes from divorce and irresponsible procreation, they keep talking about gay people. Similarly, the Black Lives Matter people are all up in arms against the cops who are trying to protect them and ignoring the real problems that black people face.
Tom

And ignoring the problems that all people face.

 

[Harmonious]

Maybe I'm missing something. I can understand the sentiment "Black Lives Matter," if one is actually complaining about prejudice and a lack of justice.

But the moment people start chanting "Pigs in a Blanket - Fry them like Bacon!", it's telling me that the folks aren't looking for justice or complaining about prejudice. They are advocating committing evil, out of some perverted sense of revenge.

So... I understand why people would choose to highlight that injustice has been done. However, that ceases to be relevant when it is a rallying cry to do violence to innocent people.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But the moment people start chanting "Pigs in a Blanket - Fry them like Bacon!", it's telling me that the folks aren't looking for justice or complaining about prejudice. They are advocating committing evil, out of some perverted sense of revenge.

Probably not. It's obvious they are calling for a change in the system, but unless there are clear threats of violence towards a particular victim, it's best to assume they aren't calling for "evil" or a "perverted sense of revenge." Sure there is frustration, anger, and rage in the chant, but it's a way to vent those frustrations, and because there is no clear threat it shouldn't be treated as such, or we may find the police arresting people for listening to songs with certain lyrics.

 

[Revoltingest]

Maybe I'm missing something. I can understand the sentiment "Black Lives Matter," if one is actually complaining about prejudice and a lack of justice.

But the moment people start chanting "Pigs in a Blanket - Fry them like Bacon!", it's telling me that the folks aren't looking for justice or complaining about prejudice. They are advocating committing evil, out of some perverted sense of revenge.

So... I understand why people would choose to highlight that injustice has been done. However, that ceases to be relevant when it is a rallying cry to do violence to innocent people.

I agree that the chanters encourage senseless violence.
But they don't represent all of the Black Lives Matter fans.

 

[esmith]

So are those that advocate death to police officers in violation of the law by as per the "clear and present danger." ruling of the Supreme Court’s 1919 decision in the case Schenck v. United States? especially the quote from the article

"But since 1969, for speech to break the law, it can’t merely lead others to dangerous situations. It must directly encourage others to commit specific criminal actions of their own."

See http://civil-liberties.yoexpert.com...-shout-"fire"-in-a-crowded-theater-19421.html for further reference. No I am not saying one way or the other. However, if the current case in Houston (http://www.dallasnews.com/news/stat...h-shot-15-times-suspect-held-without-bond.ece ) can tie the killers actions to the statements of various people or groups is there a case for criminal action to be brought against those that advocate killing police or for that matter any other human?

 

[Revoltingest]

So are those that advocate death to police officers in violation of the law by as per the "clear and present danger." ruling of the Supreme Court’s 1919 decision in the case Schenck v. United States? especially the quote from the article See http://civil-liberties.yoexpert.com/civil-liberties-general/is-it-legal-to-shout-"fire"-in-a-crowded-theater-19421.html for further reference. No I am not saying one way or the other. However, if the current case in Houston (http://www.dallasnews.com/news/stat...h-shot-15-times-suspect-held-without-bond.ece ) can tie the killers actions to the statements of various people or groups is there a case for criminal action to be brought against those that advocate killing police or for that matter any other human?

The chants weren't literal enuf to qualify as incitement under the law.
(My legal authority is based on the fact that I once lived near a top law school.)

 

[Underhill]

The chants weren't literal enuf to qualify as incitement under the law.
(My legal authority is based on the fact that I once lived near a top law school.)

Library basement by chance?

But I think you are right. And while the chant is in bad taste, it doesn't mean much in the big picture. Angry people in a large group are capable of lots of things that the same individuals wouldn't condone if given proper thought and consideration. That's why they call it a 'mob mentality'.

 

[Revoltingest]

Library basement by chance?

The UM Law School library looks like this.
(I don't know if there's a basement.)

But I think you are right. And while the chant is in bad taste, it doesn't mean much in the big picture. Angry people in a large group are capable of lots of things that the same individuals wouldn't condone if given proper thought and consideration. That's why they call it a 'mob mentality'.

Of course, if any Tea Party types did anything similar, it would be all over major news networks, & loudly decried here in numerous threads.
Some mobs get more slack than others.

 

[Underhill]

The UM Law School library looks like this.
(I don't know if there's a basement.)

Of course, if any Tea Party types did anything similar, it would be all over major news networks, & loudly decried here in numerous threads.
Some mobs get more slack than others.

Probably true.