All this transgender bathroom BS

[ShivaFan]

I speak in the manner of common sense. Some do not.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Really, there is no such thing as transgendered men or women. They are basically mutilated men and women, and believe me many of them are unhappy with their state. You'd be surprised how messed up they are and how messed up their lives are. Because they don't know what they really want and they keep trying to fill something in their life. No operation can change your gender. Your gender is decided the moment you are born and are therefore unable to change from one sex to another.

And anyone who "identifies" as a man or woman shouldn't allowed. I don't think it's a coincidence that ever since this has been talked about, you've been seeing more guys being perverted and spying on women or assaulting women.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They are basically mutilated men and women, and believe me many of them are unhappy with their state.

Then why do as many as 90-some% of post-op transsexuals say they are happy with their lives?

You'd be surprised how messed up they are and how messed up their lives are.

You realize your bashing a group with members of that group standing within ear-shot, don't you?

Because they don't know what they really want and they keep trying to fill something in their life.

And you say this based on what? With you being a cis-gendered person, how can you know what we want and know that we don't know what we want? You don't have our brains or our experiences.
Really, you're ramblings sound not that much different than people complaining that education is a bad thing for women, that women need a man in their lives because she doesn't know how to get by in life without a man, that she just can't mentally handle the stress of the workplace, and that politics and voting are just too much for her frail mental state.
Or, we could go another route on how your ranting is on par with people going on about how the negro is biologically suited for servitude, and how his life is a mess without that strict guidance and discipline from the white man.

Your gender is decided the moment you are born and are therefore unable to change from one sex to another.

Yes, it was decided at birth. I am a woman, and there is nothing I can do change that.

 

[Kapalika]

I speak in the manner of common sense. Some do not.

So do you also deny the reality of Hijras in Hinduism? Gee, I guess Aravan just was messing with the whole world.

Really, there is no such thing as transgendered men or women. They are basically mutilated men and women, and believe me many of them are unhappy with their state.

Your statements are ill-informed and wrong. Also how can you make that kind of statement that most are "unhappy" when all the data following pre and post transition shows the contrary?

You'd be surprised how messed up they are and how messed up their lives are.

You'd be surprised how happy and productive most transgender people are after transition. But what do I know I've only known ones that were successful engineers and artists and stuff like that.

Nah, you're just making assertions because it makes you feel more comfortable to believe that all this science and decades of research into this doesn't exist.

Never mind all that pesky "research" and "study"! Even ignoring that you think it's not a "real" thing even though history (I can give examples of transgender accommodation centuries/thousands of years old across the world) and medicine disagrees with you. Do you think intersex people don't exist either?

Because they don't know what they really want

How the **** can you even assert to know this?

and they keep trying to fill something in their life. No operation can change your gender.

No ****ing ****. But it's not an operation that changes anyone's gender and it's not like you go into a hospital CIS and come out trans. No no, it's a long process mostly involving hormone therapy. Now Sexual Reassignment Surgery normally is a multi part process but that only changes the plumping it doesn't change most of what gives someone their sexual characteristics. Most of that is determined by hormones.

Actually, an XY person can be female with female parts, it's called Androgen Insensitivity disorder. Also the way human genes are, flipping a single stwitch in it changes if the person is male or female physically (sex wise). What separates male and female sexes is razor thin, biologically speaking.

Sometimes that razor thin line is crossed due to mutation. That can cause someone to be intersex, or transgender. But that doesn't make Transgender an illness and I'd say medical standards like the DSM-V would agree with that.

But you know more about this than the American Psychiatric Association, don't you? You know more than decades upon decades of research and study, don't you?

Not trying to make any appeal, but simply stating that there is a lot of data you will need to refute to actually have your statements have any merit.

Your gender is decided the moment you are born and are therefore unable to change from one sex to another.

Gender isn't the same as sex; people have only conflated the two since government departments started using "gender" instead of "sex" due to an euphemism treadmill (sex used to be a euphemism itself).

And anyone who "identifies" as a man or woman shouldn't allowed. I don't think it's a coincidence that ever since this has been talked about, you've been seeing more guys being perverted and spying on women or assaulting women.

Shouldn't allowed what? Be themselves?

And no there hasn't been more sex crime. It's only been sensationalized more.

Unless of course you have any real data to support your assertion from an actual reliable source with that pesky thing called quantifiable data, which I doubt you do.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Isn't is strange that whenever someone actually points out the obvious or anything resembling reality, you see people like some here that say "lolz you're just misinformed or a bigot" or some nonsense like that. You probably should question someone's sanity when they honestly think they are a woman. You don't call a rose a dandelion. You call it a rose. Yet now you can't call a woman a woman because that woman chooses to "identify" as a man and vice versa?

I bet sooner or later you're going to see people say pedophilia is perfectly normal. It'll get to that point eventually, because everything is normal to everyone and there's no such thing as strange or weird right? Look at NAMBLA for crying out loud. No. It's about time people stop kidding themselves. People are so hypocritical as well. First they say that it's weird for people to have foot fetishes or some other kind of kink as "abnormal" yet they think it's perfectly normal for a man to be with a man or a woman to be with a woman even though we are not designed that way? Or that it's normal for a man to mutilate himself and become a so called woman and go into women's restrooms. I guess it's a free for all. I guess it's also ok for the LBGT to parade in the streets nearly naked in front of people, including children. That's perfectly normal for adults to expose themselves in front of everyone right? But people don't talk about that do they? What they do on those so called pride parades? Because that would make them look bad.

Having pride about that doesn't even make sense. It makes about as much sense as have a fart or foot fetish parade because you're proud to have that fetish? Why would anyone one the planet want to know what you do in bed? Why not have a straight pride parade? Oh but I guess we can't have that. And people speak about equality...Again, hypocrites.

None of that stuff is normal no matter how much you want to think it is. Normal is something that is "of the norm" or common, hence it is normal. LBGT are not normal in any society. What society do you know consists mostly of LBGT? Any cities or states or countries that consist mostly that group? You won't find any.

 

[Kapalika]

Isn't is strange that whenever someone actually points out the obvious or anything resembling reality, you see people like some here that say "lolz you're just misinformed or a bigot" or some nonsense like that. You probably should question someone's sanity when they honestly think they are a woman. You don't call a rose a dandelion. You call it a rose. Yet now you can't call a woman a woman because that woman chooses to "identify" as a man and vice versa?

You obviously didn't read my post. You have done nothing to refute the decades of research and study on the subject. YOU are the one ignoring not just reality but the science behind the subject.

I bet sooner or later you're going to see people say pedophilia is perfectly normal.

I would kindly like to ask you to tread carefully with these kinds of accusations. Not only is it false it's a fallacy.

First they say that it's weird for people to have foot fetishes or some other kind of kink as "abnormal" yet they think it's perfectly normal for a man to be with a man or a woman to be with a woman even though we are not designed that way?

What the hell are you even talking about? And what's wrong with a guy having sex with a guy or a woman having sex with a woman?

Or that it's normal for a man to mutilate himself and become a so called woman and go into women's restrooms.

I'd really implore that you read the relevant literature on the subject before you keep asserting that. There isn't any "so called" going around here.

I guess it's a free for all. I guess it's also ok for the LBGT to parade in the streets nearly naked in front of people, including children. That's perfectly normal for adults to expose themselves in front of everyone right? But people don't talk about that do they? What they do on those so called pride parades? Because that would make them look bad.

That's a rather broad equivalency and stereotyping. Do you really think that straight people or CIS people don't do that kind of **** too?

Having pride about that doesn't even make sense. It makes about as much sense as have a fart or foot fetish parade because you're proud to have that fetish?

Given how you are using the word fetish I doubt you even know the actual definition of it. Sexual orientation nor gender identity are fetishes. Actually what a lot of people define as "fetishes" are actually 'kinks'.

Why would anyone one the planet want to know what you do in bed?

Why do so many people want to police it? From US presidential candidates who've had histories of trying to ban dildos to trying to overturn the SCOTUS decision on gay marriage, plenty of people care what I and others do in bed.

Why not have a straight pride parade?

Because that sounds pretty clearly like a thinly veiled anti-gay rally. Normal straight people don't really see a need to have an event to help them assert their feeling of okayness with themselves. So there isn't straight pride parades because there isn't a community with a need for one. The only reason LGBT communities even arise in the first place is due to them needing to find a place where they are not marginalized.

Oh but I guess we can't have that. And people speak about equality...Again, hypocrites.

Are you calling me a hypocrite?

None of that stuff is normal no matter how much you want to think it is. Normal is something that is "of the norm" or common, hence it is normal.

That is a petty semantical argument at best.

LBGT are not normal in any society. What society do you know consists mostly of LBGT? Any cities or states or countries that consist mostly that group? You won't find any.

Are you ****ing for real right now? Is this an argument you actually take seriously? These last two parts I quoted? Are you ****ing kidding? Because last I checked your listed religion isn't "normal" either, and probably a lot of things you might like. Most people have at least some things about them that isn't "normal".

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I bet sooner or later you're going to see people say pedophilia is perfectly normal.

They said the same thing in regards to homosexuals. It never happened, and it never will happen. Pedophilia causes harm and non-consensual sex. Homosexuality and transgenders involve neither.

None of that stuff is normal no matter how much you want to think it is. Normal is something that is "of the norm" or common, hence it is normal. LBGT are not normal in any society. What society do you know consists mostly of LBGT? Any cities or states or countries that consist mostly that group? You won't find any.

A statistical number does not mean normal. When it's said the being homosexual, transgender, bisexual, or whatever, it's that it normally happens. You won't find a society of all or even mostly left-handed or ambidextrous people, but it's normal for people to be that way.

Or that it's normal for a man to mutilate himself and become a so called woman and go into women's restrooms.

"Mutilation" is such a subjective term. According to some my face is "mutilated with shrapnel" from my piercings, but to some it's a good look.

Why not have a straight pride parade? Oh but I guess we can't have that.

Who said you can't? What laws are prohibiting this?

 

[SomeRandom]

Perhaps we should just have three bathrooms.
One for men, one for women and one for those who don't really care and just want somewhere to pee!!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Really, there is no such thing as transgendered men or women. They are basically mutilated men and women, and believe me many of them are unhappy with their state. You'd be surprised how messed up they are and how messed up their lives are. Because they don't know what they really want and they keep trying to fill something in their life. No operation can change your gender. Your gender is decided the moment you are born and are therefore unable to change from one sex to another.

And anyone who "identifies" as a man or woman shouldn't allowed. I don't think it's a coincidence that ever since this has been talked about, you've been seeing more guys being perverted and spying on women or assaulting women.

Isn't is strange that whenever someone actually points out the obvious or anything resembling reality, you see people like some here that say "lolz you're just misinformed or a bigot" or some nonsense like that. You probably should question someone's sanity when they honestly think they are a woman. You don't call a rose a dandelion. You call it a rose. Yet now you can't call a woman a woman because that woman chooses to "identify" as a man and vice versa?

I bet sooner or later you're going to see people say pedophilia is perfectly normal. It'll get to that point eventually, because everything is normal to everyone and there's no such thing as strange or weird right? Look at NAMBLA for crying out loud. No. It's about time people stop kidding themselves. People are so hypocritical as well. First they say that it's weird for people to have foot fetishes or some other kind of kink as "abnormal" yet they think it's perfectly normal for a man to be with a man or a woman to be with a woman even though we are not designed that way? Or that it's normal for a man to mutilate himself and become a so called woman and go into women's restrooms. I guess it's a free for all. I guess it's also ok for the LBGT to parade in the streets nearly naked in front of people, including children. That's perfectly normal for adults to expose themselves in front of everyone right? But people don't talk about that do they? What they do on those so called pride parades? Because that would make them look bad.

Having pride about that doesn't even make sense. It makes about as much sense as have a fart or foot fetish parade because you're proud to have that fetish? Why would anyone one the planet want to know what you do in bed? Why not have a straight pride parade? Oh but I guess we can't have that. And people speak about equality...Again, hypocrites.

None of that stuff is normal no matter how much you want to think it is. Normal is something that is "of the norm" or common, hence it is normal. LBGT are not normal in any society. What society do you know consists mostly of LBGT? Any cities or states or countries that consist mostly that group? You won't find any.

This is some of the most hate-filled, stupid **** I've ever seen on this site. You should be ashamed of yourself. Luckily, I don't give a flying **** what your misinformed, hate-spewing self thinks about me. Just stay out of our lives and go stew in your vitriol in private. Choke on it for all I care.

 

[Aštra’el]

Yes, it was decided at birth. I am a woman, and there is nothing I can do change that.

You are not biologically female, and you never will be. Just what exactly do you think a woman is?

 

[Kapalika]

You are not biologically female, and you never will be. Just what exactly do you think a woman is?

A "woman:" or "female" is not totally genetic, and history and science agrees with this. even medievail arabics had accomedattions for transgender.s the fact is gender is cultural and social, SEX is genetic. that is the difference between the two.

 

[Aštra’el]

Shadow Wolf is not biologically female. Neither are you, Mandi. Both of you are of the male sex.

I am asking you and SW... what is a woman?

 

[Kapalika]

i can answer in morning but basically it is spiritual and mental

I can answer in morning. had some hone brewed wine its great but cant type

I can then tell you what FEMALE is <3

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Oh goodie, mentions of straight-pride parades as a measure of equality and telling trans people they're hypocrites.

All in a thread that is calling attention to the dehumanization of trans people as the real problem and not the bathroom debate.

That's pathetic. Go read the OP again and have some compassion.

 

[Penumbra]

The consequence of mandating that people use public restrooms based on their birth certificate or assigned sex at birth means that transgender guys like this have to use the ladies room:

People seem to forget that.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You are not biologically female, and you never will be. Just what exactly do you think a woman is?

Shadow Wolf is not biologically female. Neither are you, Mandi. Both of you are of the male sex.

I am asking you and SW... what is a woman?

Excuse me, but are you the doctor of either one of them? Do you know their hormone levels? Their karyotype? Do you have access to their neurological scans? No? Then you have no authority to comment on what they may or not be, biologically. Biological sex isn't something that clear-cut and black and white. It exists on a spectrum. Even "normal" males and females are simply just certain points on that spectrum, since males and females contain both male and female genetic, anatomical and hormonal material. (We start out in the womb as more female until the fetus receives chemical signals to start developing as a male, so both males and females contain the raw ingredients for maleness and femaleness.)

Chromosomes are a type of blueprint, but they become functionally useless pretty quickly, and the Y chromosome contains very little information. It's mostly hormones that create and regulate our sexual characteristics. There's many conditions that can cause "glitches" of a sort during sexual development. Both males and females can have natural hormonal imbalances, a male who externally appears completely male can have female reproductive tissue internally (ovotestis), females can have Polycystic Ovary Syndrome which causes them to have a masculinized appearance, a woman can naturally have the genetic makeup of a male but be externally physically female (Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome), etc. So let's not play this game. Biological sex is a very complicated thing and nature does not recognize a binary, neither within our species or in others.

Transsexualism is most likely an intersex condition of a sort. The best theory they have, and the one that has the most research backing it up, is that a transsexual's brain while in the womb, is flooded with high levels of the hormone of the sex they are chromosomally opposite of. So an XX fetus has their brain flooded with androgens and an XY fetus has their brain flooded with estrogens. It causes the brain to either masculinize or feminize, in opposition to the rest of the body. This is the cause of the sex dysphoria, which is so distressing. The brain expects the body to be one way and it's another way. It's similar to being an amputee and having phantom limb syndrome (many trans men are known to have phantom penis syndrome). We know that transsexuals have neurological differences from their karyotype sex, and we know that the human brain is sexually dimorphic. So it really does appear to be a case of a male having a female's brain or a female having a male brain.

As for what is a woman or what is a man, those are social categories that humans have made up based on observations of sex differences. What makes you one or the other is how you personally feel comfortable categorizing yourself, and that self-identity is based on underlying biological realities, which aren't what you necessarily think they may be.

Learn to science.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Shadow Wolf is not biologically female. Neither are you, Mandi. Both of you are of the male sex.

I am asking you and SW... what is a woman?

What is a someone with a penis but xx chromosomes? How about someone with male chromosomes but a female reproductive system? What about someone who initially had both sets of sexual organs but surgically removed a set to align with their identified gender?

Even sex determination isn't very straight forward all the time, let alone gender, which has nothing to do with either chromosomes or gonads but is still biological (since psychology/behavioral neuroscience is, in fact, a subset of biology.)
Nor is biology inescapable from sociology. 'Race' is used throughout medical literature despite the fact that in zoology and taxonomy, humans do not have enough genetic or morphological distinctions to qualify as having multiple races. The term is common use but sociologically driven. As is gender and, to an extent, sex.

So to answer your question: What a woman is relative.

 

[fantome profane]

Isn't is strange that whenever someone actually points out the obvious or anything resembling reality, you see people like some here that say "lolz you're just misinformed or a bigot" or some nonsense like that.

That might happen sometimes. But what also happens is that when someone says something that is ignorant and bigoted people tend to jump on it and say that is ignorant and bigoted. Strange how that works. Do people often say that your comments are ignorant and bigoted?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You are not biologically female, and you never will be. Just what exactly do you think a woman is?

A woman is simply someone who identifies as a woman. I am unable to come up with any other definition that is consistent, equally applicable, and that does not exclude someone based on some technicality.

Shadow Wolf is not biologically female.

If you were to look at my brain, it would appear far more female than male. I also have a female finger digit ratio, small hands and feet for a "guy" my size, no Adam's apple, developed small breasts before HRT, and even my Aspie traits are more normal for women with Asperger's than men.
And why the biology part doesn't hold up and isn't really a good marker for a definition is conditions like androgen insensitivity syndrome. These people are born with XY chromosomes, but unless they are tested they will live their lives, being seen by themselves and the world, as a woman. And even if they are tested, they are still women, they are still perceived as women, and the Y chromosome is irrelevant.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

That might happen sometimes. But what also happens is that when someone says something that is ignorant and bigoted people tend to jump on it and say that is ignorant and bigoted. Strange how that works. Do people often say that your comments are ignorant and bigoted?

Ok explain why it is ignorant and bigoted

Let me do it for you. You can't. There is no such thing as "transgender" You have transvestites that dress up as the opposite sex and you have others that mutilate themselves through operations and call themselves women or men, even though it is impossible for them to change their sex. It is decided the moment they are born.

Have any of you even met any transgender or transvestite before? Seriously, have you? You have any idea how many emotional problems they have, the drugs they take. Even in the LBGT community they have problems. Quite a few of them have their own emotional and mental problems. Transgenders do because they realize they ended up making a mistake by mutiliating themselves and they don't feel like women. Because they aren't. So they end up having emotional problems because they are trying to fill a void that can't be filled and know deep down that they are confused and don't know what they really want.

The gays have their problems to. No, not all. Some of them aren't deeply messed up but quite a few of them are promiscuous, have a history of drug problems and so forth. I know some personally that have messed up people's lives. Namely one of my family members, where she married a man who was actually gay, but didn't reveal it into way later on. He was emotionally and verbally abusive towards her and the only reason he married her was because he wanted kids. And even then, he didn't spend much time with him. Those kind of gays are actually more common than you think. But hey, I guess I'm just making it up for no reason because I am a kooky crazy guy who goes around hating others for no reason.

The moment I point any any flaw of what they do, I am called bigoted. I am not here to say the LBGT should be treated like 2nd class citizens. I am point out the problems they have and pointing out the flaws of letting men into women's restrooms. Please listen to me when I say this. When I say listen, I mean actually listen before you start typing up something.

You ever been to any of those pride parades? Have you personally? They do some VERY messed up stuff there. Parading through the streets, some of them, nearly naked, all while citizens and yes even children, look upon that. Why don't you tell me why that should be allowed, when any other person would be arrested or look at for indecent exposure. But that's ok. Because that they are gay, that makes it perfectly "normal".

So we let men in women's bathrooms. That's ok if it violates women's right to privacy. Because they felt like "identifying" themselves as women when they are clearly not. Already there have been an increase of women being violated, or spied on by perverts. But it's ok. It's ok to be perverted and to revel in it, right? It's ok to violate their right to privacy. Because hey, they are just women. Why listen to what they have to say when you can instead listen to a minority, many of them consisting of perverts with mental problems.

And about the whole gay marriage, I guess it's ok to violate religious beliefs as well. Anyone has a right to practice any religion they choose as long as they harm no others. If a church or temple or any group believes gays shouldn't be married and don't want to marry any gay couple in THEIR church, they have a right. Why can't they go to a church that DOES allow gay marriage. Instead with this stupid law, it violates ALL religious beliefs so I guess churches will have to violate their own beliefs because a gay couple couldn't afford to go to a place where they could be married. Would you seriously want that?

Now listen to me very carefully.

Would you want that? If you had a church and you believed gays shouldn't be married and I swooped by and said "We need you to marry this gay couple" despite that it is your church and it violates your personal beliefs. Would you want me to do that to you? Would you want me to stick my nose in and tell you how to operate your business and tell you who you can sell your stuff to?

People have been so accustomed to calling anyone bigoted that the moment you point out that a gay person is a *******, people will call you that, even if you are not even mentioning their sexual orientation. If I did not like a gay person, I am called bigoted.

Um...no you are wrong, if I think a gay person is a jerk, I am saying that because he's a jerk, not because he's gay. Same thing with race. If I call a black person a jerk, there will be idiots who will call be racist. Maybe I just don't like the guy because he's a jerk. He just happens to be black. I don't dislike him BECAUSE he's black.

By violating religious beliefs and women's rights to privacy, a lot of LBGT communities will say they want equality. Which is a lie. They want superiority. Not the same thing as equality here. Meaning they want to get away with things straight people would not get away with. If a transvestite or gender goes into an opposite sex bathroom, it is ok. If I did that, I'd be in trouble.

If there were people that paraded with little clothes like the gay pride parades do, they'd be arrested for indecent exposure. But if it's a gay pride parade, it's ok. They are allowed to get away with it.

You talk about letting groups being equal but you're sacrificing the rights to other people by doing it. That's not equality. You're just letting one group get away with something other groups would not get away with. That's superiority, not equality and if you seriously think that's equal, you need to look it up.

You make about as much sense as those Muslim bashers, when most of those guys have never even met a real Muslim, barely read the Quran and only get their information from the news, which is bias anyway. I have known real Muslims, blacks, gays, transgenders and so forth. I know there are good ones as well as bad. But what is going on now is wrong, whether you want to admit it or not.

Also LBGT is not of the norm in any society. Because it's not common. It's not "of the norm" hence it is not normal to have sex with your own sex. If you added the entire LBGT community, they'd make of 5% worldwide. Not common. That's not counting the ones that pretend to be gay because they want to be trendy or just want to rebel. It is not common in any city or society. That's not being bigoted, that's being accurate. What city or society do you know of that consists of more than 50% of LBGT people? You won't find any.

And don't bring up the whole "animals do it to" argument. That is beyond lame and asinine. What animal do you know of actually engages in homosexual behavior. Don't mention goats or dogs where the males mount other males. First off there is no anal penetration. That's a dominance thing, not because they are actually attracted to each other.

And even if there were animals that did it, which they really don't, why do you think that's justification to have homosexual relationships anyway. Some animals also eat their young or parents. Does that mean we should do that too, because an animal does it? Are you serious?

Wake up.