American Gun Laws,i just don't get it (Aurora Cinema shootings)

[Reverend Rick]

The whole issue as I see it is some folks believe they can depend on others to defend them. I would much rather let the police do their job, but during a natural disaster or riot, you might just get the busy signal when you call the cops.

I don't believe any citizen thinks they can win any wars and it would be stupid to consider starting a war, but if a battle was to start, it would be good to have some ability to fight back.

Guns are about defense not going on the offensive. Only an idiot would consider such a thing.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Give citizens the right to own a gun that can shoot through the side of a tank and governments will think twice about deploying tanks after they screw up the nation so bad they need to declare martial law.

 

[McBell]

Give citizens the right to own a gun that can shoot through the side of a tank and governments will think twice about deploying tanks after they screw up the nation so bad they need to declare martial law.

and what gun would that be?

 

[Revoltingest]

and what gun would that be?

The "Tankwillizer 2000".....

 

[Reverend Rick]

I never said anyone was crazy,what i actually said is it seems crazy to me that anyone would have that many weapons in their house with over a thousand rounds of ammo,it would make more sense,at least to me if those weapons were kept in a Gun club armoury.

Why, so when we need our stuff, we will be blocked from access when all hell breaks loose?

People believe that in the future they will not be able to buy guns or ammo, that is the biggest reason they are stocking up.

If there was a paper trail and big brother monitored every large ammo purchase, it would be easy to change the laws and seize the horde.

All gun laws will accomplish is enhance a black market and make law abiding citizens have to decide between remaining law abiding or becoming an outlaw for the first time in their lives.

I think many liberals believe anyone who is armed and processes a horde of ammo is already a criminal.

 

[McBell]

The "Tankwillizer 2000".....

:biglaugh:
I thought you meant an actual gun, not a rocket launcher....

 

[freethinker44]

I never said anyone was crazy,what i actually said is it seems crazy to me that anyone would have that many weapons in their house with over a thousand rounds of ammo,it would make more sense,at least to me if those weapons were kept in a Gun club armoury.

A thousand rounds of ammo isn't really that much actually. It sounds like a lot, but it's not. If shooting is a hobby, you can easily go through a few hundred rounds per visit at a range. And ammo can get pretty expensive so it's cheaper to buy in bulk.


I've been holding this back since this thread started because it seemed like it was in really bad taste or disrespectfull, but you know what? I'm glad he chose guns as his weapon. There really are so many more efficient ways to kill a lot of people really quickly. With that in mind, I'm glad guns were easily accessible for him because if he was pushed to use one of those other methods this tragedy would have been much worse. I mean, think about it, he went on a rampage in a crowded movie theater and only killed 12 people.

 

[Reverend Rick]

A thousand rounds of ammo isn't really that much actually. It sounds like a lot, but it's not. If shooting is a hobby, you can easily go through a few hundred rounds per visit at a range. And ammo can get pretty expensive so it's cheaper to buy in bulk.


I've been holding this back since this thread started because it seemed like it was in really bad taste or disrespectfull, but you know what? I'm glad he chose guns as his weapon. There really are so many more efficient ways to kill a lot of people really quickly. With that in mind, I'm glad guns were easily accessible for him because if he was pushed to use one of those other methods this tragedy would have been much worse. I mean, think about it, he went on a rampage in a crowded movie theater and only killed 12 people.

Exactly right. Have you ever wondered why the same folks who think small arms are useless in an overthrow attempt still want to take them from you?

Any person who wants to be proficient at marksmanship will go through a 1000 rounds easily.

 

[Revoltingest]

A thousand rounds of 22LR is a "brick". In high school, one of my teachers sold them to us.

 

[waitasec]

this is unexplainable...
why would someone do something like that?

if he wanted to harm people he would have gotten his guns illegally
either way

that is the sad truth...

 

[s2a]

A start....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense?

Thank you for provision of that referenced source...

...as you mention, it's a start.

But hardly a beginning from which to run a race borne of facts...

The number of acknowledged lacking prospective errors and sheer testimonial anecdotes alone (whether or not those being interviewed are asked the "right" questions) does not provide especially compelling defense or prosecution of the notion that gun ownership and subsequent use as a "deterrent" to crime presents any marked impact or advantage as opposed to similar studies that suggest little or no positive impact in prevention, especially in light of the nearly 9000 gun homicides annually that have virtually no ties to legitimate criminal claims of "self-defense".

It's a beggars argument of little coin from which to substantiate a credible defense.

More children die each year from accidental gun discharges than all of the "prevented" acts of criminality combined into one comparative category of rationalized ownership.

Our nation experiences nearly 25 gun homicides a DAY, which should put the awful and tragic events of Aurora (12 dead, 25 hospitalized) into better, not lessened focus...

Let's put it his way...

...if and when it can be demonstrated in any serious an scientifically demonstrable methodology of testable conclusions that gun ownership in practical use as prevention of crime or injury at very least equals or exceeds the known quantities and readily more objective measures of daily gun violence numbers, I'll remain a skeptic of arguments favoring gun ownership as practical prevention.

[Disclaimer: Our family owns a Mossberg 12ga riot shotgun "pacifier", and an always loaded Beretta 92F pistol, with expert and practiced use in both weapons...available at the ready when needed. That said, I don't believe for an instant that my owning such weapons will prevent or deflect acts of aggression upon my family or loved ones.]

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Exactly right. Have you ever wondered why the same folks who think small arms are useless in an overthrow attempt still want to take them from you?

Well I cannot speak for everyone who falls into that category, but I do, and the reason I do is precisely because i perceive them to be of little use in an overthrow attempt yet extremely useful for killing regular civilians very quickly - given that the former rather than the later is closer to the stated reason for allowing people to bare arms I therefore consider the former a more legitimate benchmark to determine the legality of different types of arms.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

[Disclaimer: Our family owns a Mossberg 12ga riot shotgun "pacifier", and an always loaded Beretta 92F pistol, with expert and practiced use in both weapons...available at the ready when needed. That said, I don't believe for an instant that my owning such weapons will prevent or deflect acts of aggression upon my family or loved ones.]

There is no object in the universe, save the extinction of man, that will 'prevent' those things from happening to your family. The guns are obviously there for you to deal with such things when they happen.

Just as it should be.

 

[s2a]

There is no object in the universe, save the extinction of man, that will 'prevent' those things from happening to your family. The guns are obviously there for you to deal with such things when they happen.

Just as it should be.

Well, for that impending "zombie apocalypse"; just in case, as you must be fully aware... and I have extra rations of holy water, crucifixes, garlic wreaths, and crossbows that deal wooden stake death to the hearts of vampires (secondary likelihood of the end of the world) available on volume discount sale on ebay, for the poorly equipped ya know

[Did I forget to mention a years supply of Evian bottled water included with every order (S&H extra)?]

Act now!

 

[Heathen Hammer]

What makes you think I am also unsupplied?

I also have a large collection of real swords. Eventually we'll run out of bullets.

 

[s2a]

What makes you think I am also unsupplied?

I also have a large collection of real swords. Eventually we'll run out of bullets.

Dang. I did omit swords, didn't I?

My bad.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

I'll share, if you bring more tuna cans

 

[Thief]

Did a quick scan of the thread....
Did anyone mention a means to protect oneself from insanity?

The report I saw, indicated there was no warning of his state of mind.

As such, there is no means to keep guns away from such people....
no matter where you live.

Changing guns laws won't help.

 

[Revoltingest]

Thank you for provision of that referenced source...
...as you mention, it's a start.
But hardly a beginning from which to run a race borne of facts...
The number of acknowledged lacking prospective errors and sheer testimonial anecdotes alone (whether or not those being interviewed are asked the "right" questions) does not provide especially compelling defense or prosecution of the notion that gun ownership and subsequent use as a "deterrent" to crime presents any marked impact or advantage as opposed to similar studies that suggest little or no positive impact in prevention, especially in light of the nearly 9000 gun homicides annually that have virtually no ties to legitimate criminal claims of "self-defense".
It's a beggars argument of little coin from which to substantiate a credible defense.
More children die each year from accidental gun discharges than all of the "prevented" acts of criminality combined into one comparative category of rationalized ownership.
Our nation experiences nearly 25 gun homicides a DAY, which should put the awful and tragic events of Aurora (12 dead, 25 hospitalized) into better, not lessened focus...
Let's put it his way...
...if and when it can be demonstrated in any serious an scientifically demonstrable methodology of testable conclusions that gun ownership in practical use as prevention of crime or injury at very least equals or exceeds the known quantities and readily more objective measures of daily gun violence numbers, I'll remain a skeptic of arguments favoring gun ownership as practical prevention.
[Disclaimer: Our family owns a Mossberg 12ga riot shotgun "pacifier", and an always loaded Beretta 92F pistol, with expert and practiced use in both weapons...available at the ready when needed. That said, I don't believe for an instant that my owning such weapons will prevent or deflect acts of aggression upon my family or loved ones.]

Just as in the field of economics, gun use as a deterrent of crime ain't too amenable to experimentation & analysis.
But given that handguns are used hundreds of thousands of times per year in the US, we can at least say that there
some good is reaped from gun ownership. The real question is about the net effect.

 

[s2a]

Just as in the field of economics, gun use as a deterrent of crime ain't too amenable to experimentation & analysis.

Thank you for that reality check. In other words, for those of you in the cheap seats… any claims that gun ownership prevents or otherwise serves to inhibit gun violence perpetrated upon unarmed victims… is just complete and utter fabricated BS. Period.

It’s magical thinking at it’s core, only supported by “true believers”, and not subject to any experimentation or evaluations of estimable or measurable fact. Pay attention please, because that simple realization is important…

But given that handguns are used hundreds of thousands of times per year in the US, we can at least say that there some good is reaped from gun ownership. The real question is about the net effect.

Well, we could say that… couldn’t we?

If we just believed it to be true, and hard enough, who knows… maybe one day string puppets can become real boys too…

“Something good…” as long as there are no legitimate, fair, universally accessible and testable objective methodologies , or validated statistical comparisons from which objective measure and balanced analysis might offer something of substance beyond even basic, caveman claims that “Gun ownership prevents gun violence”.

At any rate, the “net effect" to date is almost 9000 gun homicides annually in the US (which does not even include accidental gun deaths). on a daily basis, that averages out to 25 homicides by gun “every day”. Ahem…every day.

I say that there is a measurable “effect” resident, inherent, and persistent there…

If you wish to argue that “things could be worse” by lessened gun ownership, or public safety might otherwise be greatly enhanced by increased gun ownership…I’ll only ask that something more than an untestable claim be provided [present in some compelling and logically persuasive counterpoint]. That’s all I’m asking for… but know that any and all counterpoints offered will be fact-checked for legitimacy, foundation support, and source verification Thank you in advance for supplying all simple and accessible resources of evidential fact as part of your forthcoming argument…[quote