American Muslim women protest gender apartheid at mosque.

[Gabethewiking]

New York Times

Yes, I strongly agree with that. Also, there is fault on the side of non-Muslims as well. The U.S. has plenty to answer for. None of that changes the fact that Islam is responsible for many negative trends in today's world.

And now we are going to get a response like "Oh, I never knew about that" and then "but does aren't real muslims, real muslims following the Qu'ran do not do that" and so it goes.

If we speak of contemporary soceity, sure, we americans have bombed and killed alot of Muslims to steal oil, resources in general and political reasons, this has caused a rather negative view towards us, but also none-muslims in general, they generalize and consider Denmark, one of the highest aid givers in the world to be equally evil even if they helped muslims with money, food and technology and never dropped a bomb.

 

[Autodidact]

please provide a link with the statistics of the ppl killed from the cartoon??

In Damascus, Syria, both the Norwegian embassy and a building containing the Danish, Swedish, and Chilean embassies were stormed and set on fire by protesters. In Beirut, thousands of people protested on the streets, and the Danish General Consulate was stormed and set on fire. As of 2 March 2006, at least 139 people have died primarily during riots stemming from protests. On 1 January 2010, a man was shot whilst attempting to kill Kurt Westergaard, one of the original cartoonists.
[wiki]

 

[Gabethewiking]

In Damascus, Syria, both the Norwegian embassy and a building containing the Danish, Swedish, and Chilean embassies were stormed and set on fire by protesters. In Beirut, thousands of people protested on the streets, and the Danish General Consulate was stormed and set on fire. As of 2 March 2006, at least 139 people have died primarily during riots stemming from protests. On 1 January 2010, a man was shot whilst attempting to kill Kurt Westergaard, one of the original cartoonists.
[wiki]

Muslim Love, SPREAD IT LETS SPREAD IT!!!
But these, of course, where not "true" muslims.

 

[aymen amir]

OK OK.... i cant deny these facts .... you said 200 + 139 + 1 = 400
did i miss any thing ????

now you count with me how many muslims were killed and we will see who is the BAD GUY

in IRAQ 151,000 WERE KILLED these are just the Iraq Family Health Survey

i think thats enough
i guess you can only see what Muslims half way around the globe are doing and you can't even see your own Government
from your name Autodidact i thought you would have more knowledge than this, but once again am wrong as always



Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[.lava]

Yes, I strongly agree with that. Also, there is fault on the side of non-Muslims as well. The U.S. has plenty to answer for. None of that changes the fact that Islam is responsible for many negative trends in today's world.

what do you suggest? what do you think that would help two cultures get along good with eachother?

Islam is responsible? where was Islam 15 years ago? don't you think it is related to policy of Western nations and their doings in Muslim nations?

.

 

[.lava]

in IRAQ 151,000 WERE KILLED

that's wrong information. it is known 1.5 million died and still mass graves to be found. there's been "special" cleaning in Iraq, they spesificly killed scientists and educated people. over 1000 valuable people (professors, teachers...etc) got killed in the first year of invation. 151.000 is a funny number indeed

.

 

[Autodidact]

OK OK.... i cant deny these facts .... you said 200 + 139 + 1 = 400
did i miss any thing ????

now you count with me how many muslims were killed and we will see who is the BAD GUY

in IRAQ 151,000 WERE KILLED these are just the Iraq Family Health Survey

i think thats enough
i guess you can only see what Muslims half way around the globe are doing and you can't even see your own Government
from your name Autodidact i thought you would have more knowledge than this, but once again am wrong as always



Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I share exactly your condemnation of the American invasion of Iraq; it was unjustified, illegal, immoral and idiotic.

Now what on earth does it have to do with this thread? You would never make an infantile argument like, "But mommy, Johnny does it too," would you?

The riots we're discussing weren't against the Iraq war. In fact, if they were, I would probably support or at least understand them. No, these Muslims don't riot because the U.S. slaughters innocent people, they riot over some stupid cartoons!

And and Iraq was a secular country, and the casualties included not only Muslims, but Iraqi Christians as well.

 

[Autodidact]

what do you suggest? what do you think that would help two cultures get along good with eachother?

Islam is responsible? where was Islam 15 years ago? don't you think it is related to policy of Western nations and their doings in Muslim nations?

.

I'm not sure, but no, I don't think so. I think it has more to do with the tribal heritage of Abrahamic religions, their general lack of wisdom and compassion, the culture of us vs. them-ism. Christianity was just as bad (if not worse) before the enlightenment. I think unless Islam goes through an equivalent enlightenment, these attitudes and behaviors will persist.

I also think it has more to do with fundamentalism in general than Islam per se. The puritanical, extremist, fundamentalist, patriarchal side seems to have hijacked Islam, and it's up to the modern, reasonable, tolerant, feminist Muslims to take it back. At this point I don't even think the struggle is in the balance. The good guys have lost, and need to fight an uphill battle to take it back.

Christians, as I say, are just as bad if the rest of us let them get away with it. It's only the forces of secularism that hold them in check. If we had a theocracy in the U.S. we'd be in another crusade right now, which would probably end in global destruction.

So, no, I don't think western policies are the major factor by any means.

At least, that's how I see it.

 

[Autodidact]

what do you suggest? what do you think that would help two cultures get along good with eachother?

Islam is responsible? where was Islam 15 years ago? don't you think it is related to policy of Western nations and their doings in Muslim nations?

.

that's wrong information. it is known 1.5 million died and still mass graves to be found. there's been "special" cleaning in Iraq, they spesificly killed scientists and educated people. over 1000 valuable people (professors, teachers...etc) got killed in the first year of invation. 151.000 is a funny number indeed

.

Probably no one knows, but it appears .lava is closer to reality than aymen.

The invasion of Iraq is worse than anything any Muslim extremists have done during the same time period--no doubt about it. If only because the U.S. has more fire power. I can't even think about it without getting so angry. Dumbest move ever.

And, no surprise, it was our closest equivalent to Muslim extremist President who did it. Bush was a close to a Christian extremist as any President we've ever had. Unsurprisingly, his policies were as bad as Al Qaeda's. We Americans have to fight against our religious extremists just as reasonable Muslims need to fight Muslim extremists.

 

[.lava]

Probably no one knows, but it appears .lava is closer to reality than aymen.

i would request you not to use my name like this, please. i find it very disturbing. it would be much more better if you just insult me. don't use me to insult another. can't stand it. thank you

.

 

[aymen amir]

I share exactly your condemnation of the American invasion of Iraq; it was unjustified, illegal, immoral and idiotic.

Now what on earth does it have to do with this thread? You would never make an infantile argument like, "But mommy, Johnny does it too," would you?

The riots we're discussing weren't against the Iraq war. In fact, if they were, I would probably support or at least understand them. No, these Muslims don't riot because the U.S. slaughters innocent people, they riot over some stupid cartoons!

And and Iraq was a secular country, and the casualties included not only Muslims, but Iraqi Christians as well.

i only said this because you are saying Muslims are barbaric and they get mad about some stupid cartoons .... well at least they were mad about some thing. Am not saying it was ok to burn down embassies and kill innocent people who had nothing to do with the cartoons ... unlike America saying something and doing some thing quite different . i don't know how could you attack another country and wipe out most of its population in the name of democracy and freedom of speech ,well there is no one left in IRAQ to enjoy freedom of speech or democracy and that's IF you were able to provide that .

 

[aymen amir]

that's wrong information. it is known 1.5 million died and still mass graves to be found. there's been "special" cleaning in Iraq, they spesificly killed scientists and educated people. over 1000 valuable people (professors, teachers...etc) got killed in the first year of invation. 151.000 is a funny number indeed

.

i know the number is large than 151.000 i just wanted to take it easy on OUR friend here

 

[Gabethewiking]

i only said this because you are saying Muslims are barbaric and they get mad about some stupid cartoons

They killed thousands of people and destroyed lots of building harming people all over the world for a cartoon depicting Muhammed pointing out THE FACT of your religion, this is not barbaric or are you denying this happened? The actions of the muslims CONFIRMED what the cartoon said.

.... well at least they were mad about some thing.

So you support the murders of innocent people, is this correct?

Am not saying it was ok to burn down embassies and kill innocent people who had nothing to do with the cartoons ...

But murdering people who HAD something to do with the cartoon is?

unlike America saying something and doing some thing quite different . i don't know how could you attack another country and wipe out most of its population in the name of democracy and freedom of speech ,well there is no one left in IRAQ to enjoy freedom of speech or democracy and that's IF you were able to provide that .

How us the U.S actions related to that Muslims murders innocent people all over the world for a cartoon showing that muslim kill innocent people all over the world? You clearly think it is okey to kill innocent people because of a cartoon, just as the cartoon hinted at... Boing!



And this proves the point. You, as a muslim, support the killing of people saying anything about your religion and even worse is if the people say something that is TRUE because that is really bad and they deserve to die, right? This is why you are third world countries and do not make the world a better place. THIS is the reason, you are equal to our Creationist only in that you have your own nations and you do not hide the willingness to murder pèople.

 

[Autodidact]

i would request you not to use my name like this, please. i find it very disturbing. it would be much more better if you just insult me. don't use me to insult another. can't stand it. thank you

.

I'm not trying to insult anyone. I'm just agreeing with you factually. It doesn't mean anything hostle to aymen, and I apologize to him if that was the impression. I'm just saying that yes, many thousands of innocent people died in Iraq.

 

[Autodidact]

i only said this because you are saying Muslims are barbaric and they get mad about some stupid cartoons .... well at least they were mad about some thing. Am not saying it was ok to burn down embassies and kill innocent people who had nothing to do with the cartoons ... unlike America saying something and doing some thing quite different . i don't know how could you attack another country and wipe out most of its population in the name of democracy and freedom of speech ,well there is no one left in IRAQ to enjoy freedom of speech or democracy and that's IF you were able to provide that .

I agree.

But more interesting and important, IMO, would be to ask what is it about the U.S. that causes it to do things like this? Our culture? Our political system? Our beliefs? What needs to change in the U.S. so we don't do things like this? What's going on in the U.S. that brought us to make that wrong decision? The only ones who can really do something about it are us Americans. I would love to participate in a thread about that--I've given it a lot of thought. But that is not this thread.

In the same way, it's interesting and important to ask what is it about Islam that causes Muslims to behave in these atrocious ways? Their culture? Their political systems? Their belief? What needs to change in Islam so they don't do things like that? etc. Again, the only people who can fix it are you Muslims. What do you think you need to do? Have you given it any thought? Or is it hopeless?