Americans prefer a Muslim over an atheist for president

[Kilgore Trout]

I really hate applauding you, but ... :clap

You hate it? You break my heart, Jay. I thought we were just becoming friends.



I can be rather infuriating, though.

 

[Crystallas]

Why do you need atheism to be a religion? What does it say about your view of religion, that you aim to demean atheism by painting it as a religion?

I don't aim to demean atheism. I have absolutely NO PROBLEMS with atheism. Are you assuming that I am making fun of atheism? If anything can be squeezed out of this as a joke, I'm could be joking at the notion that atheism is not a religion, but by text book definition, and not the definition made up by strict theists, it is a religion. I don't even see how it's debatable, once you look up the neutral(non-theism based)definition of a religion, Atheism falls under the description.

 

[Tonymai]

If a person who thinks there is no greater being is above him becomes a head of a state, trouble times will be ahead for that nation. Chairman Mao, Stalin, and etc. were examples.

 

[jarofthoughts]

I don't aim to demean atheism. I have absolutely NO PROBLEMS with atheism. Are you assuming that I am making fun of atheism? If anything can be squeezed out of this as a joke, I'm could be joking at the notion that atheism is not a religion, but by text book definition, and not the definition made up by strict theists, it is a religion. I don't even see how it's debatable, once you look up the neutral(non-theism based)definition of a religion, Atheism falls under the description.

Let's see what the Online Oxford Dictionary has to say about that:

Religion
noun

The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power , especially a personal God or gods.

A particular system of faith and worship.

A pursuit or interest followed with great devotion.

So, which is these three definitions do you figure not believing in a god or gods fit into? :sarcastic

 

[jarofthoughts]

If a person who thinks there is no greater being is above him becomes a head of a state, trouble times will be ahead for that nation. Chairman Mao, Stalin, and etc. were examples.

Really?
Is that like, an absolute rule, or does it only count if the leader is also a megalomaniac? :sarcastic

I only ask because Jens Stoltenberg, the prime minister of Norway, is an atheist/non-religious, and we seem to be doing quite well...

 

[Tonymai]

Really?
Is that like, an absolute rule, or does it only count if the leader is also a megalomaniac? :sarcastic

I only ask because Jens Stoltenberg, the prime minister of Norway, is an atheist/non-religious, and we seem to be doing quite well...

Well, he has no ambition to rule absolutely, nor to push his atheism to other. But Chairman Mao and Stalin did.

He has higher ethical values.

 

[Crystallas]

Let's see what the Online Oxford Dictionary has to say about that:

Religion
noun

The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power , especially a personal God or gods.

A particular system of faith and worship.

A pursuit or interest followed with great devotion.

So, which is these three definitions do you figure not believing in a god or gods fit into? :sarcastic

:clapLook for a non-theist dictionary next time(opposed to a neutral dictionary with partial theist influence, or a full theist dictionary, which you did not refer to, thankfully). Oxford has had theist ties to definitions for years.
re·li·gion

   [ri-lij-uh

n]
noun 1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when [but not exclusive to] considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

4.the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.

5.the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.



Some sublets refer to believing in a being, others define the general recognition of beliefs. It suites all personal beliefs, including atheism.

 

[jarofthoughts]

:clapLook for a non-theist dictionary next time(opposed to a neutral dictionary with partial theist influence, or a full theist dictionary, which you did not refer to, thankfully). Oxford has had theist ties to definitions for years.
re·li·gion

   [ri-lij-uh

n]
noun 1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when [but not exclusive to] considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

4.the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.

5.the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.



Some sublets refer to believing in a being, others define the general recognition of beliefs. It suites all personal beliefs, including atheism.

But then again, none of these make atheism a religion.
It is not a set of beliefs.
Atheists can believe anything at all about cause, nature and purpose of the universe, as long as it does not involve a god or gods.

 

[dust1n]

But then again, none of these make atheism a religion.
It is not a set of beliefs.
Atheists can believe anything at all about cause, nature and purpose of the universe, as long as it does not involve a god or gods.

Yeah... atheism is one belief, not a set of beliefs. Guess that secular dictionary wasn't too helpful after all!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You hate it? You break my heart, Jay. I thought we were just becoming friends.



I can be rather infuriating, though.

It's endearing ...

 

[jarofthoughts]

Well, he has no ambition to rule absolutely, nor to push his atheism to other. But Chairman Mao and Stalin did.

He has higher ethical values.

So only megalomaniacs then?
Gottcha.
However, I get the feeling that having megalomaniacs as your nations leader, is a bad idea no matter what they think about the whole god/no god issue... :sarcastic

 

[Crystallas]

But then again, none of these make atheism a religion.
It is not a set of beliefs.
Atheists can believe anything at all about cause, nature and purpose of the universe, as long as it does not involve a god or gods.

It's not possible to have a set of beliefs that is to not believe in anything, because that still means you have some set of beliefs. No matter what, if you have an opinion on existence(based on whatever your opinion feels is right, even if it's an ideology, comes from scientific research, comes from prophets, ect), you have a religion.

I am sorry to take this off-topic. I do hate when others take a topic off course. So that will be my final word.

 

[kai]

Two-thirds of Americans believe it is important for a presidential candidate to have strong religious beliefs,

i hate statistics, so they actually asked all Americans? i doubt it and i wonder how big the survey was.

When asked about specific religious faiths and the presidency, 29 percent of Americans would be uncomfortable with an evangelical Christian in the job,

Is that really 29% of Americans or say,29% of 1000 Americans asked over the phone?

 

[Skwim]

i hate statistics, so they actually asked all Americans? i doubt it and i wonder how big the survey was.

Is that really 29% of Americans or say,29% of 1000 Americans asked over the phone?

Evidently you don't remember taking the poll. Tisk! Tisk. Growing old can be so . . . so . . . damn! Now I've forgotten what it is.

 

[Bismillah]

i hate statistics, so they actually asked all Americans? i doubt it and i wonder how big the survey was.

kai I just have noticed this over time but you really don't like statistics You do know that statistics is a well established field of studies? Accurate population samples reflect the opinions of the majority quite aptly.

Is that really 29% of Americans or say,29% of 1000 Americans asked over the phone?

Come on man that is like basic selection bias, the people who conduct these surveys aren't idiots. There are many many ways to reduce statistical error. I don't understand how anyone can just will away sound statistics.

 

[jarofthoughts]

It's not possible to have a set of beliefs that is to not believe in anything, because that still means you have some set of beliefs. No matter what, if you have an opinion on existence(based on whatever your opinion feels is right, even if it's an ideology, comes from scientific research, comes from prophets, ect), you have a religion.

I am sorry to take this off-topic. I do hate when others take a topic off course. So that will be my final word.

By that definition everyone is religious, which means that the word looses all meaning.
Instead, what is meant by a set of beliefs is a shared set of belief between a group of people.
And for atheists, no such thing exists.

 

[Crystallas]

By that definition everyone is religious, which means that the word looses all meaning.
Instead, what is meant by a set of beliefs is a shared set of belief between a group of people.
And for atheists, no such thing exists.

Yes, everyone has a religion. They can be many forms or theist or atheist. The level of involvement that an individual is towards their personal beliefs, can only be defined by perception to say whether a person is religious or not. Just like here, on ReligiousForums, you have Atheism under Religion, because that is the correct categorization.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Yes, everyone has a religion. They can be many forms or theist or atheist. The level of involvement that an individual is towards their personal beliefs, can only be defined by perception to say whether a person is religious or not. Just like here, on ReligiousForums, you have Atheism under Religion, because that is the correct categorization.

No, it's because it was the only available place to put what is for me a time-saving label.
I consider myself first and foremost an empiricist.
The fact that that effectively makes me an atheist is secondary, but it cuts down on the required explanations.
So, no, neither me, nor the dictionary agree with you that atheism is a religion.

 

[Crystallas]

No, it's because it was the only available place to put what is for me a time-saving label.
I consider myself first and foremost an empiricist.
The fact that that effectively makes me an atheist is secondary, but it cuts down on the required explanations.
So, no, neither me, nor the dictionary agree with you that atheism is a religion.

If you say so. I can't debate denial.

 

[Skwim]

Yes, everyone has a religion. They can be many forms or theist or atheist. The level of involvement that an individual is towards their personal beliefs, can only be defined by perception to say whether a person is religious or not. Just like here, on ReligiousForums, you have Atheism under Religion, because that is the correct categorization.

Curious as to how you define "religion"?