An Atheist Dad Left His Kids with a Relative… Who Used the Opportunity to Proselytize the Kids

[dawny0826]

What should the dad do? "His sister-in-law wanted to spend some quality time with his two daughters [ages 6 & 8] by taking them out for ice cream — why would he say no to that? So the girls went with their aunt. When they arrived, the aunt’s pastor was waiting for them…" [Source (minor use of foul language)]

What would you do, if you were the father?

The same as I would as a mother. I'd establish boundaries with my sisters. If she couldn't respect the boundaries that I set involving my child, she would not be trusted with them again.

 

[Sees]

I think his little girls did good in that situation and he did OK.

Shame on the aunt, though. Teaching family stuff about religion definitely isn't the same as trying to secretly recruit the little ones behind their parents' backs. I would definitely ignore her for a time after a nice verbal lashing.

 

[Aupmanyav]

If I understand you correctly then, you have no qualms about proselytizing children against the wishes of their parents.

Well, not really, but I do not consider knowing the Jesus story as proselytization. Children will read it somewhere or the other. The father could explain that the monotheist religions thrive on frightening people with hell and brim-stone fire. Most atheists have read Bible and Quran, some are better at it then even the theists.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I think if the tables were turned, and an atheistic aunt were to present atheism without parental permission to her young nieces, and to present it in an indoctrinating manner, then perhaps more people would see how out of line such things are.

If a Muslim family member did something like this to Christian kids, then more people would flip out and see what's wrong.

 

[Sunstone]

... knowing the Jesus story is not proselytization.

With respect, I think you're missing the point that the aunt and her pastor tried to convert the children to their religion. That is the very definition of proselytizing.

 

[Sunstone]

If a Muslim family member did something like this to Christian kids, then more people would flip out and see what's wrong.

Very likely these days.

 

[LuisDantas]

If the children wanted the Jesus story, nothing wrong with that. The aunt could have herself told them. But bringing in a priest who tells the children that their family will fry in hell is wrong and may have opposite effects. It is not that being a Hindu I do not know the Buddha/Mahavira/Nanak/Jesus/Mohammad/Bahaullah/Mirza Ghulam Ahmad or Joseph Smith stories.

Fair enough.

Still, the truth of the matter is that quite a few families are neither equipped to deal with the facts of diversity of belief nor truly interested in learning how to.

There seems to be some expectation that people will, for lack of a better expression, "keep to their tribe" and spare family members the stress of acknowledging that there are those with different belefs.

 

[Aupmanyav]

With respect, I think you're missing the point that the aunt and her pastor tried to convert the children to their religion. That is the very definition of proselytizing.

I agree with you, it was unfair, cowardly. Perhaps the father should engage the aunt in front of the children. (Ask for proof)

 

[Deathbydefault]

What should the dad do? "His sister-in-law wanted to spend some quality time with his two daughters [ages 6 & 8] by taking them out for ice cream — why would he say no to that? So the girls went with their aunt. When they arrived, the aunt’s pastor was waiting for them…" [Source (minor use of foul language)]

What would you do, if you were the father?

She would be disallowed from contact with them until they are in their mid-teens, actually I might never speak with her again and encourage the kids not to either.

One of my sisters would go a step further than this, I can already imagine the scenario without effort.
I would expect this and tell her before hand the punishment that will ensue for attempting to indoctrinate my children.

My mother and father have already lost all rights to any kids I adopt (I am asexual for a reason), I have no issue adding a sister to the list.
Luckily I have another sister who is first in line on my side to be visited, she's the one I call family.

 

[LuisDantas]

Well, not really, but I do not consider knowing the Jesus story as proselytization. Children will read it somewhere or the other. The father could explain that the monotheist religions thrive on frightening people with hell and brim-stone fire. Most atheists have read Bible and Quran, some are better at it then even the theists.

You are a Hindu. You have not been taught that if family members hold different beliefs than children must be made aware that they are in the wrong. Christians and Muslims often force themselves into just such a silly, destructive situation.

Edited to add: It is not even unusual for Christians (and Muslims) to expect one to lie outright if children ask them whether they believe in God or anything similar. They actually make a point of being unprepared to acknowledge the existence of atheists and expect us to feel guilty about it on their stead.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Half my family were JW's. They prostelyzed all the time. The rest of it laughed it off yet still cared for them all the same. It never hurt but there comes a time of age where kids will hear religious come-ons so it might as well be relatives first rather than strangers.

I remember being taken to kingdom halls and large conventions when I stayed with my grandparents. It was boring as hell but I enjoyed the reading material.

I suppose bottom line is it depends on when kids guided along as intellectual "property" rights by parents and guardians eventually turns over to being kids as independent thinkers when they one day realise there are more opinions and views out there than just the parents.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, it was never a crime for me to accept science. In my childhood, I was made to remember many mantras and prayer. My grandfather spent nearly one hour each morning performing the 'homa'. He wrote three books on RigVeda. But he accepted science, Big Bang, Evolution, 92 elements (in his time he thought only that many were there) and plate tectonics. I am, in a way, only an extension of him. Orthodox as far as religion goes, accept science, but for a difference an atheist of the Advaita type (which he was not).

 

[Aupmanyav]

I suppose bottom line is it depends on when kids guided along as intellectual "property" rights by parents and guardians eventually turns over to being kids as independent thinkers when they one day realise there are more opinions and views out there than just the parents.

That is what I said in my first post in the topic.

Wait, till the kids grow up. They might choose to be atheists or theists. Who can say?

 

[bobhikes]

What should the dad do? "His sister-in-law wanted to spend some quality time with his two daughters [ages 6 & 8] by taking them out for ice cream — why would he say no to that? So the girls went with their aunt. When they arrived, the aunt’s pastor was waiting for them…" [Source (minor use of foul language)]

What would you do, if you were the father?

I have a sister that I love. I have children that I love. I explain how people and religions are all the time to my children especially when someone does anything out of the ordinary. I would trust that I am bringing my children up right and move on. I would request that my sister not do that again and for awhile would always be there with the kids.

PS My sister would not be the problem, my mother is. Still treat it the same way.

 

[Quintessence]

One can frame the issue as thus instead:

To what extent is it possible and/or reasonable to limit one's exposure to any given cultural influence? Is attempting to limit exposure to cultural diversity in of itself a form of indoctrination?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's pretty low for the aunt to set the kids up like that, have them involved with an surprise meeting with the pastor, and then tell them their parents are going to burn in hell. If they were my kids, my sister wouldn't get any more unsupervised visits because she clearly has some warped morals and doesn't have any respect for my views or parenting.

 

[Jumi]

Very sneaky to try break up their family like this.

 

[Akivah]

I'm seeing the bigger picture. A parent set clear and concise boundaries to a relative. Whether the parent forbid his child from eating chocolate, learning about jesus, eating pork, learning about muhammed, taking them to a nudist beach, whatever the limitation was is really irrelevant. It is the parent's job to set boundaries for their children. The relative in this case proved that they don't respect the parent's boundaries. In my book, that disqualifies them from taking care of the children at any point in the future.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

What should the dad do? "His sister-in-law wanted to spend some quality time with his two daughters [ages 6 & 8] by taking them out for ice cream — why would he say no to that? So the girls went with their aunt. When they arrived, the aunt’s pastor was waiting for them…" [Source (minor use of foul language)]

What would you do, if you were the father?

Present it as a life lesson to the kids about how some people's irrationality and ignorance can make them do inappropriate and disrespectful things.

 

[Altfish]

Does a parent have the right to decide whether or not his or her children are indoctrinated in a religion? What do you think?

I'm an atheist. I let my kids go to church with the Guides/Cubs, they heard about god at school. They made their own minds up. They are both now atheists!